>>83978
Yeah, inaccuracy is the most clear risk here. But I wasn't talking about metagaming as the other inherent risk; I was willing to pass that off as "cheating back" if nothing else. It's more that the stuff Isabella is referencing has a small chance of having a memetic/magical payload if handled improperly.

>>83980
Also, it's possible that she's testing whether we'll recognize all her oblique hints, which is another reason why it might be best to ignore them.

Just to be clear, even with the Titovs cheating, this is still an unfair conflict in Jasper's favor. So feel free to experiment a bit. This is fun.

Cheating to win against more experienced cheaters is unlikely to work. Think about that, c'mon.
We are the light, we don't flinch from and distort the truth. If they manage to find some painful truth to wield against us that suggests we are not here for a social call like we expected and we should comment that it is rather rude to attack a visitor.

>experiment
I wonder... does the inside of this temple count as a different region? If so, truth was implied to be a part of the region's trait.

>There's a magic here that is as much of Truth as it is of the Outside

Maybe if we tried to suffuse the seen with our nature (illumination) we could reinforce the aspect of the region that's advantageous to us.

>>84008
Whether we admit it or not, WE are of the outside too: Even if we are an imperator we're the child of one of the more potent Excrusians.
I'm not sure I feel nearly half-enough chutzpah to want to explore that though.

Even if we reinforced both sides of the coin, that could be advantageous to us. If she's already bitten off more than she can handle, we'd only be exacerbating things for her if we cranked up the juice.

I think we only affect one side at a time, though, if our suffusion of hope changes depending on if we've gone cold or not.

>>84058
I was thinking a little more drastic and exploratory than that: Have we ever been this close to Outside before while conscious? I suspect that Jasper has abilities written down on our character sheet we don't know about because we've never considered ourself an Excrusian (or some other kind of Outside force) before.
Of course playing around with powers you don't even know you have during a confrontation is all kinds of bad idea unless we get lucky and we have something applicable and user-friendly in our hidden stats list. It's more likely that we either don't have anything more useful than distracting/counterproductive or anything at all to draw on there.

I'd agree Jasper probably has capabilities we haven't explored yet, and/or that she doesn't know about.

I'm not entirely sure they'd be available if we don't mode-shift cold, though. It might not just be a denial of one side of the heritage, it might be a compartmentalizing. We really haven't spent much time cold. ...or even tried to hold a conversation with Jasper when she's cold. I kind of what to do that at some point, just to see if we can gauge how much it changes her personality. And so we know how to deal with her if and when we have a tactical reason to be that way for more than a few moments.

The other problem is that it may be less a problem of undiscovered abilities as underdeveloped. If we ultimately have to make decisions about who and what we are, it's hard to know in advance if we want to shape ourselves in the ways necessary to develop those powers.


Still, I'm not sure how any of this influences whether or not trying to suffuse / influence the region to our advantage is a good idea.

Hmm. I am surprised no one is talking about the earring. Was I too subtle with the parallels?

You mentioned an ear stud, yes. Not sure what to make of this information unless we're receiving a hint that either this is someone little sis is influencing or some kind of mirror.

>>84128
It did prompt me to read back and figure out how exactly we got the Hayashi earring. Unfortunately, it's hard enough to tell what exactly was going on there that I'm not sure what Isabella having one would imply, even if we assume the means was the same.

>>84128
I noticed the earring was a parallel with Jasper's. Simple opaque (dull / reflective?) metal stud instead of an intricate danglely crystal thing that refracts light. An opposite. Several opposites, really.

Didn't see a way to use that, though. I mean, if she can use it like a focus or tool, maybe we could deprive her of it to weaken her, but the game / conflict has been all verbal / magical / spiritual so far. Trying to rip something out of her ear doesn't feel proportionate / appropriate.

>>84154
We could always ask where she got it. That might be an interesting discussion.

Actually wait, two further thoughts on this front:

If we know what Jasper's earring helps her with, and we have guesses as to Isabella's nature, we might be able to infer what her earring does. Maybe infer the nature of the play she's making.

Mother McCormick described a girl wearing a single earring as part of an outfit of mourning. I'm not sure if the rest of Isabella's outfit was described to fit that dress code, but the question might not be so much where she got it, but who she's wearing it for.

Oh, dang it, I forgot the ability Jasper used to make her earring when writing up her abilities above.

Binding: By listening to someone's hopes for the future, Jasper can create a token that gives her an ability related to the person/hopes
. The miraculous-ness of the ability scales to the blatancy of the token. A mundane skill with colors manifests as a small earring. A magical or minor miraculous ability as an blouse, or rainbow colored hair, or antenna. A major one as full scale wings, or a tentacle of fire.

>>84160
>A major one as full scale wings, or a tentacle of fire.
Or perhaps an extra aaaaaa~rm?

Anyway, yeah, this helps. If Isabella has a similar ability for whatever her deal is instead of hope, then it feels like >>84157 's suggestion of "who are you wearing it for" could, with a little effort, be turned into a lovely double question, that would apply both to the funeral garb implication and the superpower implication.

>>84160
Huh. So the earring came from binding the hopes of the glass-worker then, when we listened to him talking about the future.

Well, that's certainly an added incentive to get people talking about themselves. And we might be able to foster it even, if hope is part of our domain. Nurture it, let it to grow over time, and/or bolster the scene with a suffusion of hope, before attempting a binding. This is something we can invest in long term, for higher returns. (For instance, if we eventually temper Catherine's suicidal recklessness to be with us into belief in some kind of future for herself... character growth equals tangible power rewards).

...I'd suspect we have an Etruscan opposite for this kind of binding, though. If going cold changes our region influence from "There is reason for hope" to "The ending has already been written", we can probably bind something other than hopes when cold.

>>84163
Sounds good then. Taking a stab at offense instead of just reacting to Isabella.

Okay. Tried my best to turn that into a suggestion Jasper could use. Not sure how well I worded it as a double question, but maybe someone else can do better.

>suffusion of hope
To be clear, if we end up using it, I'm fine with the slower buildup model. I think it might be an interesting thing to try, but not worth blowing all our juice on.

>>84167
We could try *ASKING* you know, they might want to have a little hope and if we do it with their blessing they're far less likely to misinterpret it as an attack.

>>84174
...I would sort of consider influencing the underlying nature of the region to work to our advantage in the middle of some kind of elaborate social / spiritual combat to be an attack. It's intentional. An attempt to undermine what she's doing as much as maybe legitimately changing positions.

>>84175
And offering it as a gift which might help them achieve a better fate than the one they already foresee might defeat the idea that this is, or should be, a conflict or confrontation.

Hmm. You all are awesome.

>"No, she doesn't need anything from you yet. She just might need a T.A. or a class president if you are interested in the position? Its still a ways off of course.˝ Isabella says her cadence making the kind words sound like a rehearsed threat.
Oh... fsck. Well, that's me clueless for the moment, I'll go read some other things and see if I can come up with some ideas, anybody else know what to make of this?

>>84333
It was a good answer - snappy and well-prepared. But it also ended the line of discussion in a satisfactory way, which means now we have a chance to decide what to talk about instead of fielding Isabella's leading questions.

That could be getting back to the questions that brought us here. Or, alternatively, it could be a "reach out and try to connect" moment - asking her about her art, for instance.

Perhaps reasserting that we're here to learn, find friends, allies and teachers, and pay our respects to what is would be a good idea.
We could expand on that by saying, "I don't know as much as we need to about who mom was and what she did, or dad either. Anything you would like to share about them would be helpful. You also seem to know a fair bit about how to approach and talk to Excrusians; do you also know about the same with Imperators?"

>>84378
That works fine as a suggestion.

Yes, someone should post that where Jasper can see it.

>>84401
Okay, I will go back in time and do it six hours before this suggestion just for you. ;)

Thanks! It's always nice know a time traveler.

>>84436
Wait, shit... why do people all have *five* fingers on each hand now?

>>84448
Someone told a fib.

>>/quest/588186
>Hope, possibly enough to break the fate that binds you to annihilation
I'm kind of leery about how that's worded. Hope won't free them- hope is he recognition or belief that they could one day be free.

Although I suppose Jasper's power is literally to make it so "there is reason for hope", so we're making them and/or the universe acknowledge that there is a way they might be free, someday. Maybe one that wasn't there before? Which could then eventually mean that hope provided the means to freedom.

But my worry is that overselling it could make it easier for Isabella to reject the gift, or dismiss it as 'false' hope, or react with anger. We're not offering them the solution- we're offering hope for one. The acknowledgement that they can be helped. It's a groundwork laying gesture, if they accept it.

You're right that it can be overselling it. Try this?

"You sounded so hopeless, talking about an unalterable fate binding you to annihilation. I don't know how much I can help you with that, but I wanted to give you hope you could at least achieve something you wanted before that. It might even be enough to give a chance to break that fate, but no promises."

>>84476
I have no objections with that. I like that it presents it as more of an act of compassion, or attempt to help.

Next post might be a while, because I forgot about the rest of the family.

>>84485
Yeah, suddenly irradiating them with soft and fuzzy feelings might have had unforeseen consequences. At the very least, it should get attention. (Unless the effect is very localized? Although, I was assuming it permeated whatever region we were in, completely. And that their temple counted as it's own sub-region, like Jade's temple).

We've announced ourself, and there are waring factions and interests, here. They'll likely not leave everything to Isabella, and butt in, somehow.

Gah. And now I am getting all un sure about how dangerous I want the shrine to be.

I mean I don't want to over shadow family dynamics with disasters, and I really don't want to make your first use of powers back fire. .

But the timing does fit.

Grr...

Possible way to limit direct damage / backfire (or at least, towards us, right now)

* The family is split up into at least two factions, and they seem at least a little repressed and sociopathic. While the intelligent thing to do would be to confront the source of the phenomenon, it's not unreasonable they might trip each other up. Lash out at, or get caught up in dealing with each other, delaying arrival. (Ie, treat the hope aura kind of like a ring of conflict).

* Limit / contain the effect locally. Say, it takes time for our light to warm the rest of the shrine, or to fully permeate the region. The sun has to rise, it's not like flicking a switch.

* Unexpected interactions with other native region effects? Maybe... stagnation slows them down (especially since we've been focused on our dreams, and maybe helping theirs, while it seems like the shrine collectively has a more fatalistic outlook). And/or the work we've invested kicks in enough to buy us more time than we would have otherwise.

Kind of... the narrative rules (that the confrontation should reach a conclusion without being derailed) being more important than the physics (that there's sufficient time to react, and they have reason to). The universe favoring the story over reality, if that makes sense.

* The family doesn't immediately confront us because they're too busy grabbing their guns and swords off the walls for a proper response. (Obviously, this delay is only a short term benefit to us).

Brainstorming over. But I wouldn't worry too much if a 'bad' outcome makes the most sense. We'll deal. It's part of the process.

You haven't ended the world.

I just wanted to make that clear.

Jasper's theme song is of course: "Here Comes the Sun." Fortitude doesn't really do ROCK.

Crimson King was pretty nifty, but your first link didn't work for me. Try again?
Also, I think my latest, simple, suggestion may horribly backfire on us but that if it does it should at least be suitably awesome.

Ah, the first link is supposed to be "The Punk and the Godfather" by queen.

Okay, throwing this in dis because it would just be long and off topic in quest.

Why I objected to the proposed strategy of using cold certainty against Entropy:

One of the few things we know about going cold is that it (seems to) divorces Jasper from emotional encumbrances- makes her heart cold. That really didn't seem particularly helpful to me, since most of our objections to what was going on were emotional in nature (or emotionally motivated, at least). Our very reasons for interfering might no longer apply. Or that other unexpected reactions would be possible- we don't really know much at all about how Jasper thinks or behaves in that state.

One of the things I had planned to try when practicing powers was to ask Jasper to spend some time cold (we've only seen what, the few minutes with Suon?) so we could talk to her in state and try and feel out differences. This preempted that, unfortunately.

My other objection was it seems like this whole plan depends on assumptions about how the cold-hope aura might function, which we know almost nothing about. Assuming that we get to choose what future is already written, or even that it would benefit us (in a way we want), seem like very big assumptions to me.

For instance. It's an Etruscan power. What if it generally selects for outcomes that support their long term goals (and us, indirectly, as one of them) rather than selecting for outcomes that serve our specific goals at the time of use? (For instance, a future where the Imperators are weaker for Entropy turning on his son). It's not as if we had fine control over what the conventional-hope aura inspired. Or what if it just locks in the most likely outcome at the moment when triggered (hoping for the less likely result? Sorry, nope).

Entropy II mentioned a plan- and this was a possible way to lock sticking to that plan in. That makes sense. But unfortunately, a long term plan where Entropy finds a way / reason not to kill his son only makes sense if his natural response would have been to kill him. And I don't think we can say with any degree of confidence we'll lock in one outcome over the other.

Okay, this was copy-pasted between quest and dis in pieces and re-edited twice. I apologize in advance for the tense and/or editing errors that almost certainly introduced.

>>84606
Ah. These are all valid, long-term concerns. My perspective was very simple:
It looks like Entropy is about to kill his son, can we do anything at all to stop it, and if so what is our best bet? I like to think my choice was valid considering the time frame of the decision I was working on.

This next post might be a while. I am writing but it's coming slowly.

>>84636
Also a reasonable perspective. (Fun how we get two completely different answers by prioritizing unknown risks differently).

Hmm. Well now you have a few more pieces of the puzzle. Probably still not enough with out OOC info though.

Entropy I is /not/ the Crimson King /here/.

Heh. The dominoes for this have been lining up for a long time, haven't they...

I know what I want to post in the other thread, but it's a bit risky. My main purpose here would be to (1) connect the dots for Jasper vis my theory on how things got to where they are, and (2) give Junior a chance to finish whatever it is he's doing unmolested.

Something like this...
> Heh. I can't decide what to do.
>
> It's tempting. Entropy the Elder is a big ol' booger that the world would probably be better without. And he'd be pretty tasty.
>
> But on the other hand, every hint we have points to this having been dear old Dad's hope all along. If there's anyone that can gobble up an Evil King of the World, it's someone like us, and he's well-acquainted us with the flavor. The whole situation is inauspicious; multiple Enemies of the World have contributed to setting it up. And what would Junior think, if we were to gobble up his dad?
>
> So we probably shouldn't eat him. Don't do that.
>
> But maybe just a lick...

I'll respond here, since it's way too far past midnight for me to form a coherent suggestion in thread.

>dear old Dad's hope all along
...maybe? I dunno, it's possible he would benefit here from our actions, but foreseeing the circumstances and putting us in position for it seem a crazy level of chess-mastering, that would have required understanding how the universe would respond in literally unprecedented circumstances. Well, that, or a quickly coming up with and implementing a plan to take advantage of the situation after the fact.

>give Junior a chance to finish whatever it is he's doing
That assumes what he's doing will improve the situation. One idea I haven't had the chance to fully think though yet- do we want to buy Entropy II the chance to act, or do we want to try to stall both of them out from doing anything wrong until the hope aura hopefully diffuses their conflict?

Hmm.

>>84708
No, you're right, I don't think this was a completely planned moment. I meant more generally, trying to set us up to kill Lord Entropy.

Like, Dad was on the other side of a war, right? Taking out Imperators was part of their win condition. And here's this imperator who Mom also hated, and whose blood gets everywhere, and we're a primordial kind of god who can eat anything, and he was giving us lollipops made with Entropy's blood from a young age.

So that's set up, and then a different enemy of the world, at an opportune moment, goes and puts words into our head about destabilizing that same guy.

Like, a vague plan, and then someone taking an opportunity to give it a nudge.

>One idea I haven't had the chance to fully think though yet- do we want to buy Entropy II the chance to act, or do we want to try to stall both of them out from doing anything wrong until the hope aura hopefully diffuses their conflict?

We're admittedly operating on very limited information, but honestly I trust the son's intentions more than those of the father. If you can think of a way to stall them both other than what we're already doing, I won't say no. But I feel like stalling Entropy I is the higher priority.

Yeah, positioning us to oppose (or want to consume) Entropy at a later date is a kind of grooming I would find more plausible. Even what's-her-name recognizing this and deliberately trying to use us might make sense. (We really to come up with a punny nickname for the power under the shrine, already).

>We're admittedly operating on very limited information, but honestly I trust the son's intentions more than those of the father. If you can think of a way to stall them both other than what we're already doing, I won't say no. But I feel like stalling Entropy I is the higher priority.
Yeah, I'll buy into that logic. Stalling for our hope to take effect, or hoping that Entropy II helps when we stall for him seem the best move.

The lick idea might work, especially if, as I suspect, Entropy is trying to goad us. It would look like we were doing what he wanted, but we wouldn't be. (...assuming Jasper has the self control to stop at a lick. If this goes like Catherine's kiss did, things might take a turn for the worse).

>>84721
Lollipops made from evildoers. Important difference. It's just that Entropy's blood tastes of rather more pure, concentrated delicious evil.

>>84723
>...assuming Jasper has the self control to stop at a lick. If this goes like Catherine's kiss did, things might take a turn for the worse
Yeah, therein lies the risk. But the parallels are strong enough to Jasper's own particular trauma that I'll put my faith in her to not take things too far.

I'm pretty sure that even a lick is a bad idea, how much is entropy tainting us and subverting us already by dosing us with his substance?

Hmm. I had a kind of awesome idea for the next bit. But I am having trouble involVing Jasper in it to the proper amount.


I had an idea for a sort of Phoenix Wright like mini game. . . But I am thinking it's too much for something that is important objectively, but not really to Jasper's story.

Am I right?

>>84846
You could always just do a perspective switch. That's a regularly used technique in quests.

>trouble involving Jasper in it to the proper amount
Not surprising, that's sort of what it feels like from the player perspective. We got swept up into something big here, and it's hard to tell if we're really influencing it (or if we can).

As for just observing events and shouting objection? Would depend on execution, I guess. On the one hand, yeah, it's kind of silly for serious moment. On the other, finding flaws in people's logic or complaining about things that happen is kind of what we do. ...and I did tell her to stall with formal court talk, if she could.

The next post is going to be late Tuesday. Sorry for the wait.

Sorry for the Cop out. But it was becoming more and more clear to me, _why_ what exactly went down with the Entropys is somewhat of a mystery in cannon.

Kind of weird. Ends up making the second thread kind of short, and gets an anticlimax. And after cutting off the Titov stuff for it too!

>cop out
Perversely, I want to point out you had an even easier one available. We're voices in Jasper's head- she narrates her own story to us. We have no external perspective- no omniscient or third person view. No magic window to follow the story over her shoulder.

Events could have been hidden as easily as Jasper choosing not to tell us.

Well. ..hmm. That's sort of what's going on actually. Just with a bit of over eager enforcement.

The kind of being Jasper is becoming and the one she was are both bad at boundaries.

And I just reaLized that Chuubo's had a number of tools to handle this sort of situation that I didn't even think of trying. .:/

>The kind of being Jasper is becoming and the one she was are both bad at boundaries.
I hope in inflection point between being and becoming is centered around her fall, not around the decision we can't remember making.

>>85082
Oops? Well, baring consequences we may be unaware of, it doesn't seem like we made it out of that too badly. (Unless Catherine gets to be disappointed in a few years when her girlfriend's breasts don't develop due to being capped in metal). Although we don't really know what state the Entropies are in, or if Jr will still be around for tea later, or on good terms with us. Makes it a little harder to be the naive imperator trying to learn from and connect with her peer if we've already done a major working and influenced the course of his life in a big way. There will probably be consequences with the Titovs, too, although I can't predict what kind.

Although if you really aren't happy with how things were handled, drastic retconning is an option, I suppose. (Ie, delete thread 3 and try again). Not that I feel that's necessary.

Nah. It's not that bad. Besides ask the Chuubo MC's have complicated relationships to memory and time. In particular both Jasper and Siezhi (it's a Chinese name so I might be spelling it wrong)'s stories are about the emergence of narraTive and meaning out of the chaos of experience. So her quest having the occasional anti climax or false start kind of works.

>I hope in inflection point between being and becoming is centered around her fall, not around the decision we can't remember making.

Might be worth talking to her about that.

>Yeah.. he is like a grown up now.
I dunno why, but I find that just a little bit heartbreaking. We lost what could have been a friend and peer for something else.

No tea party discussing being junior imperators.

Feeling lazy. might take a while to post.

Mechanically you have finished a 'quest' and gained a perk. I am leaning towards just giving you an extra (your third) Divine Health level, which will mostly be useful to you because you can have an active 'binding/limb' in each health level. Your earring and the eye-mark you got today are each in one of your two normal health levels.

Did you accidentally copy too much into the update? You repeated stuff from before.

Yes..yes I think I did.

Well, no suggestions yet, so you could always delete and repost, but whatever.

True so I did.

>>85448
Interesting. We'll have to see what the robot eye lets us do, besides apparently letting Jasper intuit advanced mathematics.

Heh. Forgot that voting doesn't work with this few people.

Will be doing coffee tomorrow.

Whups. I forgot there was a 1-1 stalemate. :p

Figured someone would come along, or you'd just flip a coin eventually. Then forgot about it.

Its okay. I was about to when Kaja changed.

The perfect image I found won't upload. Tried 4 times. Grr.

>>85652
Weird. Is it too big or the wrong format, maybe?

PowderedLight 2014/09/25(Thu)22:01 No. 85661 ID: b3c515
File 141170771194.jpg - (522.01KB , 600x900 , fadw0428 (1).jpg )

Testing

Sorry getting wicked bad writers block on everything i do.

Anonymous 2014/10/15(Wed)10:03 No. 86104 ID: 8b533b
File 141339261810.png - (67.45KB , 337x587 , cutie cooties.png )

>>86006
Here's a scribble to try and help you get unstuck, then.

>no description of the outfit she finally picked
>no adorable / awkward bit at the door with Catherine reacting or the made up titles
...aw.

Oh man that makes me want to go back and add them. I have a next post but I think the thread is in the archive or grave yard or something?

Do I have to start a new thread?

>>89219
If archive, yes, if graveyard, ask a mod to take it out.

>>89219
On hey, nice timing! I'd just marked this quest off as not running literally yesterday.

The thread fell into the graveyard. You have to hop on irc and ask a mod to pull it out.

>>89219
This quest?
>>>/quest/592273

Yep. Thanks Mods, I'm actually using a beta so I wont be able to post for ~6-24 hours.

>>89274
Have fun.

>Oh man that makes me want to go back and add them
Technically nothing stopping you. (Except linearity, but what is that to a god. Or a narrative).

I think my beta forgot. >.<

Posted the update!

Huh, the thread doesn't seem to be showing up on the board? Or am I just missing it?

Oh, haha, it auto-saged.

There's an anti-spam feature where if a thread hasn't updated in long enough, it autofills sage when you load it.

> Technically nothing stopping you. (Except linearity, but what is that to a god. Or a narrative).

Hmm. Can't figure out how to do that in way that wont be incredibly jarring.

Well, it might have worked if you did it before, since you were only a post off. Now it would be a little jarring, yeah. You'd have to flashback, or have Japser go "oh, this happened before and I forgot to say."

If you really still wanted to do it, you could write it up and bug a mod to edit it into an earlier post for you. Or you could just post it here in dis as omake.

Grumble I had the perfect pic, but it wouldn't upload from my phone, and now I cant find it.

Working on updating the wiki, since when Jasper asked us if we should know what's going on, I realized I'd forgotten stuff. (You probably didn't bring your sword... wait did we ever actually get real a sword).

Started with the region properties, cause I've gone back and checked those a lot. (I think we might have gotten properties for the Kichi and Titov shrines at some point? Couldn't find it skimming around, though).

I think I need to sort the powers differently too- it would make sense to list which things were bound abilities were the result of binding, and what to / of. (Does the earring let us do sky emotes and sunlight-searching, or just one? Did we figure out what they cyber eye does, yet? And I'm not sure if the bronze seal counts as something bound, or something else).

Probably needs a character list to keep track of everyone.