Trying to redesign Magic variants isn't my favourite passtime. If I'm getting no help I'm giving up.

So, what, are you proposing that we go back to having a standard hand and draw phase, but basically be able to draw any card we want from our library? That'd certainly fix a lot of those niggling issues.

Which leaves spells that mess with the library in general (tutors and library rearrangement). Suggestion: library rearrangement can make cards temporarily unavailable for drawing or reverse that. Advantage compared to milling is that with library rearrangement you can pick what becomes unavailable whereas with milling you likely wouldn't get to pick what they lose.

Tutors are pretty close to a lost cause, but I'll think about it.

Further proposal: cards affected by library rearrangement become available again at a rate of one card per turn. The owner picks which card.

>>364296
Yes, my idea was to bring it back to working almost like normal Magic, except instead of drawing actual cards you're dealt seven uses at the beginning and draw a new use each turn (subject to normal modifications by card effects), which act like normal cards for hand size and things like that. For spells that look at what's in your hand or things like that it would be your hand-count's number of cards that haven't been taken out of your hand/library set yet.
Still existing problem: Red gets to blast with all four of its lightning before the end of the third turn. As long as life stays below normal this is a cheap and easy win without some kind of life gain, damage redirect, damage prevention, counterspell, forced discard against red. or SOMETHING to keep the other walker alive. Even with standard life totals this is alarming. Perhaps this is a good thing in disguise because white life gain used to be someting I always laughed at.
The biggest issue with that is the draw and discard mechanic cards, those would be flat out negative. My proposed solution for that would be to just make the discard part happen at the option of the caster/controller/user of the effect. I figure this should work since none of them are as good as the P9 instant Ancestral Recall anyway, although there's a list of them that are iffy:
-The thing that bothers me most about this adjustment is that it makes cycling into an easily obtained and reusable card draw method without the normal cost associated with it... unless you take the discard as a casting cost and therefore unskippable. That's probably what happens but this is already getting a bit complicated.
-Another possible issue is the *mill hand to find better cards* mechanic from things like Drastic Revelation, Shattered Perception, Tolarian Winds and I think others as well. I don't know how much adjustment they would need or how to adjust them.
-Compulsion should probably lose the discard part of its first option and the mana cost of its second option to be balanced with this because... it sucks! Lose the discard for Mental Discipline as well.
-Merfolk looter, Thought Courier and others like that suddenly become tap for 1 draw, but they're not all blue so it isn't totally unfair. Plus blue needs something to make up for having 2-cost spells that say no be its big thing.
-Draw and reveal if it isn't X for Sindbad and certain others I guess fixes that card as being specific when it's drawn? For Sindbad itself I'd just let it be draw one but other draw and reveals do crazy things like Treasure Hunt. That one in particular is puzzling me about how to handle it.
-Cephalid Broker, Bazaar of Baghdad, Frantic Search, Magus of the Bazaar seem a bit too good without the discard but perhaps livable. With draw back to the double-edged sword it's supposed to be they help players that use them deck themselves.
-Magus of the Jar and Memory Jar probably shouldn't change at all, they're all about decking out an opponent in a really annoying way that risks giving red their last lightning they need or something.
-Trade Routes? I dunno. It's a weird old enchantment whose main purpose seems to be bouncing back land. I have to look up if it'll let you recover land from the graveyard to know how good it is in standard format even.
-Wheel of Fate, Wheel of Fortune and Windfall shouldn't change I think.
-Control of the Court and Goblin Lore are draw 4 discard 3 for converted 2... that's alarming without the discard. Take out the discard and these sorceries are looking roughly as good as Ancestral Recall. Should we just let red have it and bite our nails more when facing a red player? Change them instead to draw 1?

About your library arrangement proposal >>364296 and >>364298
You're talking about individual specific cards instead of "Counterspell" or "Mana Leak" right? Sounds complicated to me; that's effectively a temporary exile and exile return mechanic. It also would require a player to know what they're exiling somehow which implies spy on their whole hand/library. Not a fan of that implication or the complexity of exile and return.

My concept of tutors being something you cast to become a duplicate of some other card in your hand/library was an idea that I got by looking at Copy Artifact. I mean that spell actually does something comparable to what a tutor does and it does it for somewhere in the range of costs of what tutors cost. You'd reveal this token-copy spellcard as normal for tutors I'd figure. Someone tell me how easily abused it is though.


Irrelevancies:
Geth's Grimoire + Jace's Erasure + make them discard one card in any way you like = !!!
Illusions of Grandeur + Donate = troll win

Another implication: Would Telepathy fix opponent hands as specific cards?

I see that my tutor/library manip ruling has sparked quite a debate about this system. I'll agree that it isn't perfect, but I'm not going to go fiddling around with stuff like this willy-nilly. I'll try to address the points that I can.

>>362338
That's a well-made point, and even though it doesn't affect things right now, I think that it needs an overhaul. Here's what I will be doing now. This is final unless it gets changed at a later date, so whining about it won't do anything.

Tutor spells combine the best aspects of the previous tutor and library manipulation mechanics. When erica casts a tutor spell, she'll receive a spell at random with the same CONVERTED mana cost as the tutor that she cast. She can cast that spell without paying its mana cost at any time during that duel, but that spell will count against her spells per turn. This way, she doesn't have to pay double for a spell, and she can save it until it's beneficial for her to use it.

Spells that manipulate your library order will now add one casting of a spell in your pool, with slight weight being given to spells that have been discarded/milled.

>>364279
Treasure Hunt always draws you only one spell, plus however many lands are on top of your library. So it'll basically read "draw a card" since the lands you get aren't contributing to you getting access to more spells other than being taken out of the way.

>>364320
Telepathy would reveal X spells to you, where X is their hand size. (determined by the process in >>361581)

>>364330
I'm not suggesting you change things without due consideration. I am suggesting that the reworking of the way card draw works has significant issues:

#1: Card draw is also part of decking out in the original system. Draw 20 should exhaust someone's library or nearly so, not be a strictly positive thing. Draw any should put you however many steps closer to decking out than an opponent playing the same deck size. It's a risk with a defined chance of something that will help you and a guaranteed certain problem. The cards of MTG were designed and balance-judged with the understanding that it would be a risk.

#2: Card draw persists between rounds in the original system; if you draw a card and don't play it or discard it then it stays in your hand. So draw three this turn and you use two should leave you one more than you started with.
In order to avoid carrying over insane numbers of "castings" and still provide a limit you avoid this and give a flat default limit that an be enhanced with the greatly reworked replacement for card draw each round. But it doesn't work out right: Card draw becomes something weak and strictly positive instead of more powerful and risky. Consider Howling Mine and its possibility as a form of attack if you have graveyard return and your opponent doesn't. If you get this working all you need is to survive their attacks on your life and they die instead of you, which is a balance shift from the normal problem of trying to kill them before they kill you. It provides support for using healing/lifesteal to survive unit attacks until something else gets your opponent for all of the colours.

#3: Draw is part of the oversize hand discard mechanic, and the oversize hand discard mechanic exists to disallow people from having infinite deck access without severe problems and costs. Your format gives them infinite deck access in their hand except for a casting per turn mechanic that is far enough away from the way Magic usually works that it causes headaches.

My proposal is to dial that back one step to something closer to the way Magic generally works with the same cool feature that randomness of card draw doesn't screw up everybody. If you and your group can address the issues I have identified in a better way I would be very interested. Both my proposal and your current system still have the turn-three Lightning runthrough problem as well, which should be addressed somehow. In normal 40/20 decks the odds of even seeing three out of four lightning within the first three turns is something I can calculate, but far less than 100%. You need me to refresh on my high school probability and remember how to calculate that?

>>364335
I have to say, turning the hand into a "number of available casts" mechanic makes a LOT of mechanics more sane than the originally presented system. Both discard and draw can actually function again, for one thing, just by changing the number of available casts.

Draw as mill can function by making you lose if your available casts exceed your remaining spells+lands. Likewise, available casts over seven can negate spells at random from your available spells at the end of your turn to simulate the hand size limit.

We could avoid the "spam a single spell to win" difficulty by implementing a cooldown scheme between castings of the same spell, which tutor/scry mechanics could reduce or eliminate.

>>364337
I'm seeing problems with your casting limit idea. Telling a red player they can see that lightning, taste it, smell it, and touch it without being allowed to cast it by some outside-of-normal rule mechanic is... iffy. Consider that if red starts with three lightnings, a fireball, a critter of some kind and two mountains in hand in the normal game that was most of a win unless the other player has some dirty trick, Force of Will, enough Force Spikes or something.
More generally that risks confusing and upsetting the standard beats versus cool situation.
-Red is usually the beats... the player trying to do everything they can to stop the other player from winning by killing them first.
-Blue is usually the cool because most times all they have to do is stop the other player from initiating their victory condition (big fatass monster or enchantment or whatever) and then pull out what they've got to win.
Your mechanic risks telling blue that they can't cast a second counterspell in a row even though they have to or die, for example.

>>364349
But that's very similar to how things are in normal Magic. If you've got five cards in hand and three more counterspells in your deck, you can still be SOL if none of those counterspells are amongst the five cards. It gives up a little potential for casting the same spell repeatedly, but you still have access to a wider variety of spells than you normally would because you can use your casting slots for any of your deck's spells.

If you want to be sure that you've got the spell that you need, stack spells with similar functions to avoid cooldown problems- just like in normal Magic you stack spells with similar functions so that you're more likely to draw more of them and have them available when you want them.

>>364353
Hmmm. You've led me to the obvious point that I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too with perfect spell access except for that red guy who will use it to win.
Perhaps the real reason I'm looking at this from a blue perspective and alarmed about it is there's no Force Spike, Force of Will or anything else we can use to ding off repeated Lightning to the face: Red easily has the cards to potentially blast 20+ damage in 8 cards + 8 mana within the the initial pick five from recent core and expansions. That lets them finish out a turn 4 win in normal and a turn 3 win in 16 life or less if they aren't somehow stopped. If they do run out of blast cards or use them up on defensive removal or something they didn't have critters out for those rounds anyway.
I'm probably also unduly alarmed because red isn't supposed to win with 12 damage, or even 16 damage. They're supposed to win with no less than 20.

>>364355
Yeah, with less than 20 life fast decks take the advantage. But I'm really not sure how that would change unless we drastically shift away from the current game mechanics. I remember there was an M:TG computer game where you ran around and built your deck out of antes from beating NPCs with their decks, and leveled up your life from the battles, and it basically suffered from exactly this problem. Most enemies were all but trivial to beat if you just rushed as quickly as possible.

>>364358
The Shandalar game was trivial to beat for a lot of reasons. One was because none of the computer players had enough brains to really know what to play when, or a good set of rules to fake it. The biggest reason it was easy to beat was because it put few limits on the player deck beyond your maximum of four to a type and 30 card minimum. There was no restricted one-to-a-deck card rarity or anything.
Eventually I beat it silly using a thirty card deck with 4xblack lotus, 4xtimetwister, 4xancetral recall, 4xmox jet, 4xmox sapphire, 4xdark ritual, 4xlife drain and 2xhurkyl's recall. This was a fairly reliable first turn win and a demonstration of the power of over half of the P9.
Seriously, experience playing Shandalar introduces a number of details of how to play Magic but it does not teach you about how the game generally works against sane human opponents with reasonably constructed decks or reasonable choice limits. Magic is not supposed to have no-response win on the first turn, they work very hard at preventing that even in legacy, er, vintage is what they call that now?

Now, I'm not here to choose the new card that we're gonna be using as there's been much debate about it. I'm here to try to guess our new "black" best friend's magic spells.

And I'm guessing from M10,11,12 that Nicole gonna be using undead creatures, more specifically vampires, zombies and probably Black Knight. What two blocks she gets I won't guess, just no point in it.

>>364469
Nicole probably got our starter deck list choice options as well, five from Mercadian Masques and Invasion as well as 2010-2012. Possibly also the extra pick from 2010-2012.

Seeing as there's not been any real consensus, I'm shelving the pick until you get another card choice, or earlier if you all agree on something.

I also apologize again for leaving you all hanging as long as I did. Real life happens, unfortunately, and when it does I have to deal with it before dealing with imaginary magical girls. I hope you all understand.
>>54690
Because I'm a vindictive bastard, I'll tell you: Nicole is still sitting at "level 1", so she hasn't got a bonus pick yet. Her starting sets are the 3 core sets, plus kamigawa and ravnica blocks (a somewhat modern analog to your options - a generally weak block that had a few good cards but little that was extraordinary, followed by a very well-received multicolor block that sold like crazy.)

>>55026
>Seeing as there's not been any real consensus
There was fairly real consensus that by nuking the effectiveness of tutors, library manipulation, and card draw, a huge chunk of blue's cards are reduced to crap and more crap. There was general consensus that nuking has indeed occurred. Also that no other color can reasonably expect to beat an intelligent red player in this system. Just sayin'.

On what card to choose, I feel reasonably confident saying that either "hold the pick until we can choose from a set that isn't mostly crap" or Phantasmal Image were our unhappy mediums.

I don't know about consensus about the format being busted: I was doing most of the talking and not many people were saying much about it.

Honestly, I feel the quest would be fine without the system being so rigid. Just wing the spells to act as you think they should act, and do whatever you want to make the quest interesting.

I think the point of a more rigid system is that it provides a much more solid framework for developing tactics while avoiding having to rely on author fiat too much to keep the players from breaking the game. What a lot of even the common cards do according to the fluff is ridiculously broken in a freeform system. Would turn the quest into a game of "Do I have a contingency/enough mana to not die/be mindraped/exiled"

On the subject of balance, I think it'll mostly even out in the end, but two mechanics I think will have to be looked at are deck and graveyard control. The first is almost useless, the second probably too powerful with returning cards to the deck being synonmous with returning them to your hand.

I know you're getting a lot of unasked for advice regarding the mechanics, but I gave it some thought and had an idea for making deck control suck less without, to me anyway, any big overhauls. Instead of having full access to your deck to start, begin with access to one of every card, and on draw(renamed pick to avoid confusion) phase pick another to gain access to. Draw keyword grants access randomly to what's still in your deck, tutor works more or less as normal, and scry would only really work with the draw keyword.

This makes deck control weaker than in normal magic, but it will be an option to reduce the turns on your win condition. Moreso, it leaves the stability of the current system pretty intact while forcing the early win condition decks to choose between rushdown and the longgame, because with the current rules and access, once you have the card selection you can just have both. All colors can do that with set access, but red and green have that earlier with no drawbacks later on.

Welcome to the revival of cute girls doing cute magician things. I'm still the same dumbass from before, but we're doing things a little different now.

Veronica has the following traits:
>Black Magician Girl - Veronica is able to wield the magic of the swamps and cast black spells.
>Concerted Caution - Veronica's reserved nature will exclude spells randomly chosen by the DM that require a life payment or losing life as part of the spell's effect(Ex: Thoughtseize, Reckless Spite)
>Maiden of the Blind Eternities - Veronica, after gazing into the truth of the multiverse, has gained otherworldly insight about interplanar theory and how the many universes can interact with each other.
>Mana Flood - Veronica's mind has the tendency to go off on a tangent that needs to be reined in on occasion when standing in a powerful source of black mana. She remains totally cognizant of her surroundings and can act as normal in this state (for certain values of normal).

Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves or ask lore questions. I'll try to answer as best I can without spoilers.

>>84352
Okay, due to Veronica's status, I think she'd be more amenable to summoning these creatures.

-Black Knight
Knight, Soldier

-Mortician
Zombie, Skeleton, Spirit

-Accountant
-Mercenary

-Abandoned Supermarket mana source
Vermin like rats and bats

I'm amused two of us asked after a dis thread in quick succession.

>Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves or ask lore questions
Could I ask what Maggie's sub-specialization in blue is? (Like 'Roni ended up a Knight / Mortician). I don't know if that would be too big a spoiler into her character or motivation that we could leverage, but I'm curious about the flavor you set up for other colors. Because honestly, the fluff for black was pretty damn cool.

>>84353
I'd think once we're thinking strait and have secured the ara, experimenting with summons and negotiating loyalty would be our next priority. I see no problems with that list.

...and I like that the black knight comes with protection from white. That sounds like something useful to have waiting in reserve. You know we're going to run into some meddling holy force, eventually.

>Maggie's motivation
Thinking about this: she was scared away by the realization that her power was running away from her, and by a close brush with her own mortality. While Roni may understand that way of thinking, I think it's going to have a hard time getting through to her directly. She's focused on caution and control even while running headlong into this, and her natural affinity was for black, and a natural order of death (mortician), and a certain callousness towards doing what needs to be done (knight).

Put that all together and I think you've got someone who's not going to be concerned about their own recklessness, nor overly worried about her own mortality (even if she's in no rush to die). If and when Mags tries to talk her friend into not going to deep, I don't think her reasoning is going to stick very well.

Which I think is going to make for an interesting problem, if we intend to find some way to use her as an ally.

>>84364
Here were Margaret's sub-class choices:
>[]Elementalist - The winds and waves are at your command and obey your every whim. Some folk believe wielders of blue magic are frail and infirm academics who can't actually do combat. With a little planning, showing those fools up is a trifling matter.

>[X]Scholar - Magic is finicky. The rules obeyed by this stuff we don't know are vaguely defined, and just when you think you know it all, something rapes everything you thought you knew. That said, knowledge is power, and few can match your knowledge in matters of the arcane.

>[]Illusionist - Whoever said "seeing is believing" can shove it. A strength of blue magic is the ability to fool the senses. Whether it's summoning a protector, calling a veil of invisibility, or altering one's appearance, what you see is very rarely what you get.

>Put that all together and I think you've got someone who's not going to be concerned about their own recklessness, nor overly worried about her own mortality (even if she's in no rush to die). If and when Mags tries to talk her friend into not going to deep, I don't think her reasoning is going to stick very well.

This is a pretty astute analysis of the two's interactions. I remember a line from FE8 when thinking about Veronica's logic: "I don't pick fights I can't win" - she's very sure of herself because she doesn't run into things without the most information that can be gathered - and when she decides to fight, it's on her terms.

>and just when you think you know it all, something rapes everything you thought you knew
...ouch. She went right for the "magic is gonna fuck you over somehow" option right from the start.

Still, an ally whose whole shtick is knowledge is would be a good resource to have, especially getting started, and especially if we ever doubt what our employer is telling us. If and when we get her on board with that.

>"I don't pick fights I can't win"
Another potentially interesting complication, since we signed up to basically be a magical mercenary. Not sure we get to pick all our fights...

>>/quest/587692
>black market
>this is a major long term investment
Part of the reason I'm not thrilled by the idea, right now. Figuring out how to be a sorceress, getting our magic going, that's a major long term investment. Not sure another one is really worth it when that's still in play.

>>84426
Apologies, but I went looking through the enchantments of Black for something that can burn through an excess of black magic that's worth having. I was thinking we'd rather have an enchantment of some kind than a minion in place, since *any* kind of minion at all we leave in the old store is either 'a suspicious character' or 'a dangerous infestation' that could call down official attention.

Oh, I suppose that's not bad logic. If we dump excess mana into it and it operates itself (or if we're functionally converting mana to revenue) that's two birds with one stone.

I guess how useful it would be would depend on how autonomous said market would be, and whether or not it was a big timesink.

Looking at the card Black Market, it's a converted-cost five enchantment that gives you free mana in proportion to the number of folks who've died. Basically it's step one of a two to five turn drain life for infinity in conventional Magic, and I suggested it partially out of whimsy.

>>84438
>>84447
It's not a horrible idea, admittedly. But Black Market a rare spell (not easily accessible to a beginning mage), an enchantment (uncommon for black magic), and gives Veronica bursts of free mana (which in this place is the LAST thing she needs). It's important to remember that black market is a mana source, not a mana sink.

Also remember that when this was printed, mana burn was a thing. Unless you had something to do with all the mana you were getting every turn, you'd risk taking significant amounts of damage. While mana burn no longer exists (and a big reason of why black market is a $13 card now) it's still not something Roni will especially want. An actual black market on the other hand might be a bit more up her alley, but there's the question of what she'd sell.

I'll leave that to you all.

>a rare spell (not easily accessible to a beginning mage), an enchantment (uncommon for black magic)
Out of curiosity, how do game mechanics like that translate to the quest? Does rarity mean the spell has prerequisites before we could access it? (Requires research or a book, being taught, components, a ritual?). If black magic doesn't tend towards enchantment, does that mean Roni just wouldn't come up with it on her own? That there would be a high chance of failure, or the spell blowing up in our face?

>>84575
Generally speaking, the more rare and a spell is, the more likely Roni will need specialized teaching or research to cast it, as opposed to randomly dropping it. Something like Dark Confidant will require Veronica to display extreme competence and awareness of the risks she takes by having Bob giving her stuff, while demonic tutor (an uncommon spell, but a very old and very good one!) would require communing with a demon of some form. Spell failures will almost always result in just wasting mana as opposed to having much in the way of dangerous consequences (obviously high-power spells can have other setbacks if things go poorly).

It's entirely possible for Roni to be casting enchantments, it's just not as common in black as it is in other colors (blue and white especially).

It's contract negotiation time!

Anon has already brought up some concerns which I'll address currently. The contract is in fairly plain wording and written in English.

>Preamble
The contract writer assumes whoever is taking this contract is not a lawyer and will treat them as such. This contract is written to be easily understood by everyone involved so there's no misunderstanding. If you try abusing loopholes, we can do it too, and we've much more experience at it. Don't try it.

>Exit Criteria
If you want out and we can't convince you otherwise, you can leave. If you continuously fuck up missions that should be well within your ability, we can fire you. In these cases, we will take back the spells you started with, unless you have other spells of similar power and rarity you're willing to trade. You aren't banned from trying to re-learn those spells, but don't be a dick about it.

>Right of Refusal
If you think there will be a conflict of interest for a mission we assign you, speak up before you start. Depending on the conflict, we may or may not have someone else do that job. If you think a mission is impossible, do what you can and we'll take it from there.

>Education
Seriously? You actually like school? You know the basics by now, if you want to learn more that's on you to find someone you can ask for it.

>Death/Benefits
If you get hurt on the job, we'll heal you as best we can so you're as you were before you got hurt. If you're only mostly dead,(and there's a reasonable expectation you can be revived) we'll do everything viable to get you back. If you're completely dead, that's that. We won't resurrect you, and if you knew what it does you'd beg us not to try.
If you die in our service (we hope you don't, it's supposedly unpleasant) then all payments you're due to receive will be sent to a person you indicate, or your nearest living relatives. (by lineage, not distance)

>Arbitration
We have arbiters that can be summoned. They do this shit for a living, ask them about it.

>What else do you want to know?

Pff great tone.

That they won't revive us if we're completely dead seems like it might leave the door open for a lot of fates worse than death open to exploit, but if we're meant to trust intent and not exact wording, I'll take it.

That we don't get more than one lesson with Bob is disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. On the job training programs are notoriously unreliable.

Having an equal vote in a mediator was probably reaching, but if they're summoning outsiders for it, that's better than in house HR.

>give up the spells you started with
So every spell currently on our list? Or none, since we didn't know any when we met. Or just the ones our employer paid for through Bob's lesson?

Biggest concern here is we seem to have accidentally summoned some kind of powerful permanent artifact sword, and I want to know if they have a claim on that (frankly, we don't have anything else to offer in place of that).

>>84780
This would likely be a thing for arbitration when/if it happens, but they expect the return of 3 summons and 3 spells. (or equal value for it)
The sword you keep regardless, because it's not actually a spell you can cast. You do lose access to spells you cast through the sword, but the actual thing isn't something they can lay claim to.

I'll hold this open until Friday for any other concerns. If there are none, I'll post new thread on saturday.

Honestly, the whole cancellation fee thing seems a little weird to begin with (I mean, if you worked for a military, say, it makes sense if you're asked to return the weapons or equipment they issued you when you leave. But they didn't issue us any spells or summons- we sought out knowledge and/or experimented!), but I suppose they want a return in power for awakening us (which they can't take back) if they lose our services. And obviously, a means to discourage us from leaving.

If we continue to gain spells at a reasonable rate, and don't run into something intolerable forcing us to quit before at least our first few missions, sacrificing 3 spells and summons of our choice isn't too arduous a price to pay. (Especially if arbitration allows us to argue the price down). Their not having a claim on the sword is the biggest issue down.

That's pretty much everything I can think to check, barring obvious fuck you clauses Roni may find reading the whole document through. Didn't ask about vacations or sick days, but I assume they're smart enough not to send sick people on dangerous missions (or just heal them), and I'd assume time off could be negotiated depending on the circumstances.

So yeah, I think we're good, up until the point they decide to do something stupid like sending us on suicide missions, or giving us stupid evil assignments.

Would you like this signed in ink or blood, hairball?

I would like to ask for a stipulation that allows for guarantee of return to present in case of time shenanigans.

Rules of universe be damned, magic is magic, and causality is a right, not a privilege!

>>84799
>Vacation/Sick Days
You're guaranteed a minimum 2 full days off between the end of one mission and the start of the next. We reserve the right to call you in early if and only if something really bad comes up. ("Really Bad" is going to be at least a multi-dimensional threat. This is just a contingency, we really hope it never comes into play) If you need longer after a mission, give us a good reason and we'll work something out.

>>84806
>Causality Loops
We won't fix time bullshit, because we refuse to mess with it on general principle. If you mess up the time stream, that's on you.

Assuming "we refuse to mess with time bullshit" includes, by extension, not deliberately sending your employees into situations to mess with time bullshit (wormhole fetch quest! Attack the time wizard!) that's probably sufficient.

>>84811
We do not deal with time travel. It never ends well. (or begins well, it's hard to tell with time travel.)
Technically any interplanar job is going to involve what is basically a "wormhole fetch quest" as you put it. But we arent going to abandon you in some fucked up plane with no possible way out. That's a very easy way to get people wanting to kill you, and that's not beneficial for us.

And Turn 2 has begun >>/quest/591035

Good luck!

As promised, here is Veronica's mission Dossier, as prepared by Management.

http://pastebin.com/HQag6BYE

Good luck~

Some thoughts.

We were told we could use magic openly, in this plane. However, we turned the entire course of that fight by summoning two creatures, and I'm not sure anyone else was even casting. We've only been at this a day or two- if any of the other attackers or defenders had mana to draw on, you'd think they could have easily made a contribution of that scale.

Suggests casters, while known and accepted, might be somewhat uncommon or rare. Sarah seems to hold an officer's rank in her guild's command structure, but I'm guessing most of the grunts under her command and on the other side were normals. I wonder if that means our display of power might mean we accidentally drew more attention than we wanted to ourself?

>>85497
That brings up the question of whether this setting all mages in this setting work like the land-powered creature-summoning plane-hopping planeswalkers or whether other mages (such as you might summon or encounter native to a plane) function differently. If they all work like planeswalkers than mage summons are significantly more powerful than their card stats, since they could potentially summon their own minions, (or maybe if they are powerful relative to their cost even copies of themselves?!).

Yeah, intelligent summons are definitely more valuable than the alternative. So far for us because they can teach us things. So far we've got a sword tutor, counter assassin consultant, and magic lessons.

Which actually gives us a cheap way to dodge some of the costs of quitting, if and when we do. Let them have the spells Elena taught us- but keep Elena. She can always reteach us, at a later date. (Even if she's eventually going to start charging in some manner).

You're right that chain summoning would get crazy overpowered, right quick. I'd like to assume that there's something that balances or prevents that but... we'll see. (Might just be balanced by the fact that truly powerful casters don't cooperate as summons very often?).

I take it that we may have a chance to get black common and uncommon creatures and spells from Ravnica and RTR blocks when we are doing the bodyguarding job on the plane. Of course the job comes first, but if we get some free time afterwards, we might want to walk the streets and markets.

Any chance we could get the full flavor for Sarah's trait? From her trigger speech, Devout Aspirant likely ties to faith and determination and getting the job done, but it's nice to know.

I'm assuming it's a white trait, although I'm not sure if she's white, or if she's been doing this long enough to be dual colored (white / blue would fit with her assumed guild, and with the color of dialog).

Yeah. School happened, but let's not worry about that. my personal life shouldn't be a barrier to you all enjoying the quest. I'll answer your questions at least.

>>85497
You're correct - most spellcasters know one, maybe two spells. Part of that has to do with being self-taught, part of it has to do with the plane itself, and there's also the relevant Powers That Be governing certain things.

>>85506
You do not have the ability to planeswalk. It might be possible that you have the spark required, but if you do it's not active. Thankfully, Management does have that ability and is using it to shuffle agents around.
As for others, your normal "creature" won't have magic they an use. Magically inclined creatures on the other hand will know a few spells pursuant to their color. The easiest way to identify this is looking for a casting class in the typeline. (Cleric, Wizard, Shaman, Druid, and Spellshaper are the biggest ones. There may be others.)

>>85552
This falls under the umbrella of "dick move" as far as Management is concerned. You certainly could do this, and there's technically nothing stopping you. But you never know if you might need them later, and if there's bad blood between you and them...don't expect them to lend a hand.

>>85648
I'll be sure to address this, because there are plenty of places where you could pick up a new trick or two - if you're willing to accept the prices. Gold is...usually accepted.

>>85837
>High Trait: Devout Aspirant - Blessed is she who fights in the name of the Lord. When things aren't going your way, be it fatigue, injury, poison or even just rotten luck; even a short reminder of your unbreakable faith is enough to boost your resolve. Be aware this blessing is not irrevocable, and calling on such help must be part of a higher calling.

Sarah has been with the Company for almost two and a half years. she has near-mastery over white magic and a firm understanding of blue magic. While she's still in the middle tier as far as agents are concerned, the girl has proven herself exceptionally competent, if not a bit quick to judge others. (gee, you noticed?)

>Yeah. School happened
No worries, life happens to the best of us. Glad to see this isn't left for dead though!

>spellcaster limitations
If that's true generally, and not just in Ravenica, it strikes me that's really what management did in awakening us. Bypassed the planer and/or PtB restrictions for us.

>dick move
Awful touchy these lawyer types with their fuzzy hellspawn are.

I suppose the alternative solution would be to simply have accumulated enough spells by the time we leave that there are ones we don't mind parting with. Or... not leave. (I kind of hope they don't inevitably do something that forces us to turn away from them. I'd rather just have someone to hand us quests than have to wage war, again. I'm fine working for casual affable evil so long as it stays that way. Heck, the paladin is).

>Sarah
Now there's a handy trait for someone expected to operate on her own for long periods of time.

Although really, it's the experienced and competent bits that worry me. Management sending completely green reinforcements either suggests they're not taking her seriously, or that they really couldn't scramble anyone else any faster. Either of which could blow up in our face.

And I can live with judgey. I'm pretty sure there's enough compatibility between their philosophies for respect, even. Assuming we're past the worst of the black is bad thing, we keep her alive, and we get a chance to talk about more than immediate problems at some point.

Welp, the thread's in the graveyard.

Rest well, and collect black mana.