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Grey Calling Wish
56dc25
Writing this down here for whoever wants to read it.
[00:31]<TheBeardiestBob>IMPROMPTU Q AND A ABOUT CHAOS AND ORDER
[00:31]<RNG>Oh sweet
[00:31]<NaiveOne>IS CHAOS PURE AWESOME BECAUSE BANG IS CHAOS AND I MUST KNOW!
[00:31]<Anonymo>Do you want Q's, or are you starting off with the dispension of A's?
[00:31]<TheBeardiestBob>Chaos is creation, change, the new.
[00:32]<RNG>Okay, so what does Ozmand favor and how does his preference affect his behavior and abilities?
[00:32]<TheBeardiestBob>It is action quantified
[00:32]<TheBeardiestBob>Try and analyze his thought patterns when talking with him, you can get a feel once you have a concrete understanding of Chaos and Order
[00:32]<RNG>Hmm, gotcha
[00:32]<NaiveOne>Oz is obviously Chaos
[00:32]<NaiveOne>to my mind
[00:33]<TheBeardiestBob>Order is the null, the unchanging. Perfect order is nothing, a void where not even time is needed, perfect stasis
[00:33]<TheBeardiestBob>So Order, in its pinnacle form, is fare more dangerous than Chaos, which can only become nukelike cancer
[00:33]<Shot___>Soul Calibur's beloved 'erfect world'.
[00:33]<Shot___>Wherein it covers the world in crystal.
[00:33]<TheBeardiestBob>More questions?
[00:34]<Shot___>So Order and Chaos have a strict bearing in the world...
[00:34]<Shot___>But good and evil do not, correct?
[00:34]<TheBeardiestBob>Nope
[00:34]<TheBeardiestBob>good and evil cannot be quantified in this setting.
[00:34]<Anonymo>Okay... so, since we know Keddic is Order and Bang is Chaos, that would be because Keddic's white blood abilities are all about fighting off anything that might threaten his current state, while Bang's are all about growing whatever he needs, be that replacement flesh or bizarre new physical features?
[00:34]<TheBeardiestBob>just assigned as personal opinions
[00:35]<NaiveOne>does Order and Chaos effect the nonliving?
[00:35]<TheBeardiestBob>Yeah, rejection, the them of White Blood, is exclusion, preventing change of the self. Very Order. Bang's Possibility Cells is ever change, always adapting, Chaos in all its glory yes.
[00:36]<TheBeardiestBob>Yup
[00:36]<Anonymo>Was Keddic order-aligned prior to his discovery/use of White Blood, then?
[00:36]<TheBeardiestBob>He was, in a loose manner, from his strict adherance to his families values
[00:36]<Anonymo>Because his general blood magic abilities seem pretty neutral to me.
[00:36]<TheBeardiestBob>the White Blood solidified it.
[00:36]<NaiveOne>Is there only Order and Chaos, or is there a name for the state in between? or a lack of both?
[00:36]<RNG>What about the Deep Ones? Don't they represent the opposite of this? Their mentality is firmly Order but aren't their forms Chaos? Or is Order and Chaos much deeper than mere form?
[00:37]<RNG>Or are they somehow exempt?
[00:37]<TheBeardiestBob>That is why Deep Spawn are a perfect balance of Order and chaos, their souls two distinct parts, for the chaotic now, and the ordered forever.
[00:37]<TheBeardiestBob>like a peanut shaped soul
[00:37]<RNG>So they are the pinnacle of what could occur when mixing the two powers then?
[00:38]<Anonymo>So order and chaos... the way that our soul magic abilities are described, we would make our heroic souls more powerful by tipping them out of balance, either way on the scale.
[00:38]<TheBeardiestBob>Not the pinnacle no, but a highly refined method of utilizing the principles of Chaos and Order
[00:38]<NaiveOne>Nihilo has an Order based power then? as fading into nothingness seems to be a form of order
[00:38]<Anonymo>Is it generally more powerful to be imbalanced than balanced?
[00:39]<TheBeardiestBob>Correct, building saturation of just one type increases yeild. Granted, making a properly personalized chaos/order match would be best, but you're just starting.
[00:39]<TheBeardiestBob>Nihilino is ORDER, SO ORDER GODDAMN
[00:39]<TheBeardiestBob>Like, his Order blob of timelessness is two thirds his soul
[00:39]<NaiveOne>ah, I feel so correct then
[00:40]<NaiveOne>... is that an issue then? to be that Ordered as something seems more innate to a balanced state?
[00:40]<TheBeardiestBob>Mothbern is CHAOS, change and time happening far too fast
[00:41]<TheBeardiestBob>Order leads to being able to laugh at time when approaching critical mass. Chaos gains the ability to make anything of any energy sort wavelength matter type whatever approaching critical mass
[00:41]<TheBeardiestBob>Which ends in energy nuking the area as you dump so much heat from all the Chaoos
[00:41]<RNG>We know what happens when we try to incorporate ORDER and CHAOS into the same attack of our own creation. Could we then try and create a specialized combat style that battles at that level? Ignoring all elements but CHAOS and ORDER, could such a style exist to purely nullify and combat at that level?
[00:41]<NaiveOne>does that imply magic sort of has two specializations then? for example, Order-Chronomancy versus Chaos-Chronomancy?
[00:41]<Anonymo>...if I understood what you just said, the method of fighting that Eisenhardt described the Disciples' soul grave as using was a strongly chaotic one, then?
[00:41]<Anonymo>Because it was generating shit tons of matter from nothing?
[00:43]<TheBeardiestBob>RNG: Yes, you could customize a fighting style like that. But only if Mordre was at that point an Organic Soul Grave, putting you at considerably increased risk of Other issues.
[00:43]<TheBeardiestBob>Naiveone: Yes, several magics have spells exclusively of one side or the other
[00:44]<TheBeardiestBob>Anonymo: Yes, sounds like SOMUCHCHAOS
[00:44]<RNG>Hmmm. Interesting that such a thing could exist at all. I'd suggest other individuals learning it but it almost sounds like this is more related to Soul Magic than anything else, making such an endeavor difficult.
[00:44]<NaiveOne>huh... so The System is probably just a planetary scale form of the Order versus Chaos issue
[00:45]<NaiveOne>I also suspect Morde is very Chaos
[00:45]<TheBeardiestBob>on some levels it is, but the System is a very comprehensive thing
[00:45]<TheBeardiestBob>Mordre is Chaos, correctamundo
[00:46]<TheBeardiestBob>In fact, pure, unadulterated Chaos, not a whit of Order.
[00:46]<Anonymo>He has to be, right, because he's consuming large amounts of energy constantly to fuel his existence. Also the constant growth thing.
[00:46]<Shot___>Wheeeeeeee
[00:46]<NaiveOne>I was going to say
[00:46]<RNG>Is Mordre Chaos because of our influence, that of the souls in the furnace, or because of something innate concerning his own soul?
[00:46]<NaiveOne>and we are figments of Chaos...
[00:46]<TheBeardiestBob>Nope, that is what Mordre's soul has been from the getgo
[00:46]<RNG>Awesome.
[00:46]<Shot___>Somethings been bugging me
[00:46]<RNG>Very helpful.
[00:46]<NaiveOne>so, we are actually a part of Morde's Soul?
[00:47]<TheBeardiestBob>but having the OUTWORLD chaos strains of posters there it makes for EVEN MORE CHAOS
[00:47]<Shot___>Mordre often refers to His Own soul, as opposed to the souls that power him
[00:47]<RNG>Ahah, right, right
[00:47]<Shot___>I thought he didn't have one
[00:47]<NaiveOne>no, he does
[00:47]<TheBeardiestBob>Sort of, Mordre's soul is anchored to a universal stillpoint, in the way that all intrinsically timeless souls are.
[00:47]<TheBeardiestBob>That's what makes Mordre interesting
[00:47]<TheBeardiestBob>Is that it is a TIMELESS soul, a horrendously Order thing, while being pure Chaos
[00:47]<RNG>Ohohoh, Bob, stop giving me hints on what Mordre is. Keep making me want to work on that problem more
[00:48]<NaiveOne>.... oh duh, well, thanks for letting me know how Pristines are made Bob, thanks, lemme go write that down
[00:48]<TheBeardiestBob>That is just the Order/Chaos aspect of what Mordre is, there's a bunch more beyond.
[00:48]<RNG>Right, right. Like WHY Mordre exists, that seems pretty important, ahah. But that's for another time
[00:48]<NaiveOne>is the 5 Pristine thing still up Bob?
[00:49]<NaiveOne>cause with how much ya said, it almost seems unfair...
[00:49]<Anonymo>You mentioned personalized chaos/order setup. Does that imply that each individual soul has a specific balance, or imbalance, that it would like to reach?
[00:49]<RNG>You figured out how he's generating them?
[00:49]<NaiveOne>Its obvious now
[00:49]<RNG>Nice~
[00:49]<TheBeardiestBob>Is you quote the original challenge, and fully meet its requirements to my satisfaction, it is still on the table, because I haven't given you all the answer, just part.
[00:50]<NaiveOne>im only unsure of one major detail
[00:50]<NaiveOne>but it may not be needed
[00:50]<TheBeardiestBob>which would thus prevent acquiring the 5.
[00:50]<TheBeardiestBob>You have to FULLY explain it
[00:50]<TheBeardiestBob>be thorough, this is 5 souls, SO MUCH SAFETY NET
[00:50]<RNG>Damn it, that means I need to contact Kyorto before I can make my hypothesis on the Master of Sorrow
[00:51]<NaiveOne>hmmm, I can tell you why their made, but I can't tell ya why it ever happened in the first place
[00:51]<RNG>Oh, hey. How about other soul graves. We'll say a brand new one. What kind of alignment does that have?
[00:51]<NaiveOne>oh well, I guess I should write it down anyways
[00:51]<Anonymo>A new soul gravee should have chaotic, because it's based in the expenditure of energy, right?
[00:51]<RNG>And on that same note, how about a cow? I'm interested to know how soulless beings are alligned.
[00:52]<TheBeardiestBob>Making a new Soul Grave would constitute a mostly Ordered existence, actually. It would have Nihilino weighting of the soul partitions of timeless to body
[00:52]<Anonymo>Cows have protosouls, I think. Which is distinct from being soulless.
[00:52]<TheBeardiestBob>cows have nothing but moopower
[00:52]<TheBeardiestBob>which goes mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[00:52]<RNG>DAMN IT
[00:52]<TheBeardiestBob>moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[00:52]<RNG>Obviously we must harvest this new source of power
[00:52]<RNG>Doho
[00:53]<Anonymo>Let's not. It is too great for even us to fully control.
[00:53]<NaiveOne>.... actually, maybe I don't know for sure. I don't know why predictions would cause them to be made
[00:53]<Anonymo>The only safe path is to genocide all cows, before someone else can use them against us.
[00:53]<RNG>Lenryt wishes she could control moopower
[00:53]<RNG>But some fucko in Trollingwood knows the secret.
[00:53]<Anonymo>Anyway! Bob, I think perhaps you missed my question up above, so I'll repeat it:
[00:53]<TheBeardiestBob>There is someone who CLAIMS to control Moopower. Time will tell, if you ever get to find out if his claims are true
[00:54]<Anonymo>You mentioned personalized chaos/order setup. Does that imply that each individual soul has a specific balance, or imbalance, that it would like to reach?
[00:54]<RNG>I dread the day, Bob
[00:54]<TheBeardiestBob>Each soul has an individual ideal state, yes.
[00:54]<NaiveOne>damnit, I have too many uncertaines now, forget my what a pristine is concept
[00:54]<Anonymo>Is that ideal state predetermined at some point when the soul is created?
[00:54]<RNG>So we have these ideal states. Does our nature have anything to do with our ideal state? And could someone go the opposite path from this ideal state?
[00:54]<TheBeardiestBob>No, it can change over time unless the soul become pure order, then it gets locked
[00:55]<Anonymo>I recall Eisenhardt for example said that he had a natural talent for Magnetomancy and Geomancy- perhaps because his ideal state required knowledge of them?
[00:55]<Anonymo>Does it change a lot, normally?
[00:55]<TheBeardiestBob>Big change would accompany a Moment of Inspiration, otherwise months for change at the minimum
[00:56]<TheBeardiestBob>and I'm going back to FF9 after getting oferzealous with a bomb.
[00:56]<RNG>Sweet. Thanks for the session Bob
[00:56]<NaiveOne>*faceplam* ..... how the hell did I not make that connection
[00:56]-->|Shiitake (~Shiitake@Rizon-C42F3A38.no.no.cox.net) has joined #Golemquest
[00:56]<Anonymo>Okay, so we're looking at changes as a fairly regular drift throughout one's lifetime, probably.
[00:56]<RNG>Seems like
[00:56]<Anonymo>Much like personal beliefs or what have you.
[00:57]<NaiveOne>I know some things now
[00:57]<NaiveOne>let me share them with you
[00:57]<Shiitake>Arkus is generating world magic... that is VERY strange considering that I know what World Magic is.
[00:57]<RNG>But this ideal state is more than that. It's more than what you want and believe, rather that it reflects what's best for you at that particular time. But by what consideration? Ah well.
[00:57]<RNG>It is strange, isn't it?
[00:57]<NaiveOne>Pristine Souls: comparable on some levels to Keddic's Moment of Inspiration
[00:57]<Anonymo>But when we grab a heroic soul, it can't grow anymore. So it's got a distinct, unchanging ideal state. (Which seems odd, if we're chaotically based... but then the soul grave container is apparently mostly ordered... organic/inorganic crap again.)
[00:57]<NaiveOne>Function of Chaos
[00:57]<NaiveOne>Likely connected to us, possibly 'our' essence being brought through Morde's furnace
[00:58]<Shiitake>TheBeardiestBob: I forget, is anyone else supposed to know what World Magic is? Was it revealed yet?
[00:58]<RNG>There are elements of Order to pristine souls too, though, wouldn't you say?
[00:58]<NaiveOne>If not, it is what occurs when Order meets pure Chaos
[00:58]<RNG>After all, we made the tempermental Immortal Genocide bow to our will through it
[00:59]<Deadbeard>So are souls naturally chaotic? If so, then do Soul graves actually burn that chaos, converting it into order and using that as fuel?
[00:59]<NaiveOne>ya beat me by a second
[00:59]<RNG>Pristine souls, then, would be that balance of Law and Chaos.
[00:59]<RNG>Cool. Interesting.
[00:59]<NaiveOne>I think its more what happens when Order tries to inhabit Chaos
[00:59]<NaiveOne>it forms a protective pocket
[01:00]<RNG>Well, it seems kind of like the Deep Spawn thing. It's born from a moment of great change and then enacts a powerful force of order.
[01:00]<Anonymo>I don't think the ideal state reflects what's "best for you", but rather what your "final state" would be, if that makes any sense.
[01:00]<NaiveOne>but damnit! how did I not connect the wording of Moment of Inspiration to what happened to Keddic!
[01:00]<RNG>So it's something like enlightenment?
[01:00]<NaiveOne>its our equivilent
[01:00]<Anonymo>That is, if someone grows in power but without changing their personality at all, their soul will come to resemble their ideal state more.
[01:01]<NaiveOne>what I don't know is why predicting the future causes them to occur
[01:01]<RNG>But what if their personality is somehow detrimental to this ideal state? Or would such a thing even matter?
[01:01]<NaiveOne>does a prediction have a sense of Order to it? as it becomes set
[01:01]<Anonymo>How can their personality be detrimental to the fullest expression/development of itself?
[01:02]<NaiveOne>damnit, I feel close
[01:02]<RNG>I dunno. Just poking at the thing in question, looking for holes.
[01:02]<Shiitake>I wish bob wasn't afk
[01:03]<RNG>Say a personality is self destructive. This would be detrimental to a body's ideal state. So would the ideal state reflect the body's whims or the personality's? What does the soul reflect?
[01:03]<RNG>Is it so one sided? Or is it balance betwixt body and personality?
[01:04]<Anonymo>Then their "ideal state" is one in which the soul more fully expresses its own self-destructiveness. The body gets no say.
[01:04]<Wutenheimer>you missed him by about 30 seconds shiitake
[01:04]<RNG>Hmm, I wonder.
[01:05]<Wutenheimer>oh shit it's ass day again?
[01:05]<RNG>It's that time of the year
[01:05]<NaiveOne>could a Pristine Soul be purified Chaos?
[01:06]<Anonymo>I mean, we're using the word "ideal" here, but if I'm right on this that's somewhat misleading- it's ideal in terms of a soul's power only. It doesn't place any judgment on quality or type of personality, or how a fully expressed soul of that sort will be able to survive in society, or whatever.
[01:06]<NaiveOne>because it does effect change on the world
[01:06]<RNG>I think the very name pristine soul implies balance between chaos and law. That is, unless the very nature of the soul itself is sided towards one path or another. But I don't think this is the case.
[01:06]<Wutenheimer>pristine soul, moment of inspiration(chaos) frozen in time(order)
[01:07]<RNG>So ideal is only in defference to the will of the soul. I think I can dig that.
[01:08]<RNG>That way this ideal state stays seperated from mortal simplicity. It also makes sense from a point of manipulation. In our interaction with the heroic souls to come their bodies will have no say. And I think that personality then becomes a reflection of the soul.
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