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File 145996462387.jpg - (406.67KB , 1024x1024 , Wars of Immoren Title Sheet.jpg )
98889 No. 98889 ID: 0eaeaf

Ask questions here! And if I start turning this into a poster-board for information *cough* my first questdis *cough ** cough*, please warn me.
Expand all images
>>
No. 98890 ID: 0eaeaf

In order to cushion this for some people who are not as familiar with the wargame of Warmachine/Hordes, here's the description off of Privateer Press.

"In WARMACHINE, the very earth shakes during fierce confrontations of Armageddon-like proportions. Six-ton constructs of tempered iron and steel slam into one another with the destructive force of a locomotive. Lead-spewing cannons chew through armor plating as easily as flesh. And a tempest of arcane magics sets the battlefield ablaze with such that the gods themselves fear to tread the tormented ground.

In HORDES, monstrous beasts set upon one another in a bloody clash of tooth and fang that churns the battlefield into a seething sea of carnage. Brought to righteous wrath by the intruding wars of man or their own thirst for conquest, their masters feed on the pain and rage and forge primal energy into a weapon to wield against their enemies. Ash, desolation, and the smoking ruin of once-proud civilizations are all that remains in their wake."
>>
No. 98891 ID: 0eaeaf

Cygnar:
The crown jewel of the Iron Kingdoms, Cygnar is unequalled in the synthesis of magic and science. Its advanced technology is evident in the varied strengths of its troops from specialty forces such as the legendary Stormblades and Arcane Tempest
straight through to the rank-and- file long gunners and trenchers. While the Strategic Academy reinforces the front lines with recruits, the Cygnaran Armory fortifies those
a constant supply of powerful warjacks.
>>
No. 98893 ID: 0eaeaf

Khador:
The massive armies of Khador personify the ideals of its people, prizing strength and resilience over all else. Equally inclined to bravery or stubborn tenacity, they are willing to outlast their enemies in a war of attrition if they cannot smash them asunder. These forces are glorious to behold as they march, with crimson standards whipping above and titanic warjacks shaking the earth with each step.

With bold attacks, Khador has recently brought Llael and the Thornwood under the banner of the Motherland, but mastering these new lands is proving as difficult as
conquering them. The armies of Khador remain vigilant,
determined to hold all they have gained and ready to strike at the heart of their enemies for glory, nation, and empress.
>>
No. 98894 ID: 0eaeaf

Cryx:
Led by powerful and unholy lords of death, Cryx is a nightmare empire of the restless dead bound to the service of the Dragon Lord Toruk. These abominations work tirelessly to spread their necromantic dominion across the Iron Kingdoms. Enemies of the undying can never be lax in their vigilance, for Cryxian raiders arrive without warning. They burrow up from underground lairs or land ashore from the dreaded blackships that sail the coastlines of the Iron Kingdoms powered by ghostly winds.

Human nations toil for next season’s crop, and elves fight tooth and nail for the future of their race, but the lich lords of Cryx have nothing but time. These deathwrought immortals weave plans across generations, and machinations long forgotten are even now unraveling western Immoren.
>>
No. 98895 ID: 0eaeaf

Retribution:
The nation of Ios has long isolated itself from the nations of the Iron Kingdoms. Among the few willing to venture outside of its borders were members of the Retribution of Scyrah, a zealous and outlawed splinter sect devoted to stopping the proliferation of human magic. Recently, however, news that the Iosan god Nyssor is held captive in Khador stoked the embers of violence into a roaring flame set to consume the nations of man. Now those who support the Retribution's cause hold power in Ios, and their collected armies march forth to war.

Members of numerous Iosan houses have banded together at this turning point in history to fight for the future of their gods, their nation, and their entire race. This great army relies upon millenniums of military tradition, the tactical acumen of their commanders, and the knowledge that if they fail there will be no tomorrow.
>>
No. 98896 ID: 0eaeaf

Menoth:
The Protectorate of Menoth is a nation forged in turmoil and utterly dedicated to the will of an ancient and unforgiving god: Menoth, the creator of man. Led by the Scrutators, a ruthless priest caste, the Sul-Menites of the Protectorate have initiated a great crusade for the singular purpose of spreading the Creator's dominion across the face of Caen.

Although the faith of the Sul-Menites is ancient, their nation is of more recent origins, having arisen from the Cygnaran Civil War that was sparked from to bring Cygnar back to proper worship of the Creator. Following their defeat, the Menites bided their time in the harsh lands east of Caspia; there they build an army in secret, preparing for the day when they could defy those who sought to control them and seize of hold of their own destiny.
>>
No. 98897 ID: 0eaeaf

Cyriss:
The faithful of Cyriss, the Maiden of Gears have lived among the people of Western Immoren for centuries, quietly working to uncover the laws of the universe. They have long been tolerated as an enigmatic cult of mathematicians, engineers, and stargazers, but in remote communities and facilities the inner circle of the faith were advancing their agenda. There they constructed massive machines with which they intend to conclude their Great Work and transform the very face of Caen to bring about the transformation of their goddess.

As the forces of the Convergence enter the Phase of Alignment, they march to war against other powers of western Immoren over sites of geomantic potency. Their leaders have abandoned bodies of flesh to be transformed into clockwork vessels. Immune to pain or doubt and with advanced weaponry, these steel armies possess unflinching resolve. The clockwork state itself their afterlife on Caen, they have no fear of death.
>>
No. 98903 ID: 0eaeaf

I am seriously considering to changing the update time from "once a week" to "once every two days." Drawing isn't as hard as I thought it would be. I'm already on panel 8 in both the Khador and Skorne continuities. Sure, it might just be character creation, but still!
>>
No. 98904 ID: 5ad4a7

Might want to post some example pictures of units.
>>
No. 98905 ID: 8013df
File 145998841085.jpg - (271.46KB , 1719x2725 , Prince (Skorne).jpg )
98905

Here is one I made of you as a teenager in the skorne continuity.
>>
No. 98906 ID: 8013df
File 145998844709.jpg - (492.95KB , 1108x2079 , Prince (Khador).jpg )
98906

And in the Khador continuity
>>
No. 98907 ID: 8013df
File 145998932954.png - (199.06KB , 286x400 , Skorne-Template.png )
98907

Here is the card I'm going to use. Once filled in with stats of course.
>>
No. 98908 ID: 8013df
File 145999027517.png - (198.44KB , 284x400 , Khador-Template.png )
98908

You seeing a pattern here?
>>
No. 98911 ID: 8013df
File 145999161016.jpg - (162.76KB , 2170x1303 , Certrati Unit.jpg )
98911

And here is a sample of a unit loadout when zoomed in.
>>
No. 98919 ID: 8013df

Circle:
he Circle Orboros are an ancient order of druids dedicated to the Devourer Wurm, Caen's primordial god of chaos and the wild, destructive aspects of nature. They name this serpent Orboros. The blackclads have existed since before the rise of the earliest human civilizations, composed of people sensitive to the magic of the wild, and they channel this power in service of Orboros and themselves. Menoth—the great hunter, creator of humanity, and the god of civilization—is the ancient enemy of Orboros and hunts the Wurm across the spiritual world of Urcaen. The Circle believes that the inexorable spread of settled nations and industry has strengthened Menoth and weakened the Devourer. If this continues, Orboros may stir and return to wreak utter devastation on the world. Thus, they make war upon civilization itself and strive to preserve the wild spaces of Immoren.

Druids of the Circle display their natural magical talent while young. This wilding is an aptitude for wild magic and an affinity for nature. Largely the province of folklore in most of Immoren, such people are actively hunted in the Protectorate. The Circle always senses a wildling's awakening and attempts to abduct them, but this is not always possible. Druids with the proper affinity learn to control various natural beasts, the warpwolves (twisted creatures the Circle creates), and the stone-and-wood Wold constructs unique to their order. They also call upon the willing warriors of the Wolves of Orboros, humans living in wild areas with a long history of fighting for the Circle in return for protection, and the savage Tharn tribes. Once human worshipers of Orboros, the Tharn are now a race of shapeshifting, heart-eating barbarians capable of transforming into monsters.
>>
No. 98920 ID: 8013df

Legion:
So the Legion moves forward advancing the dragon Everblight's plans. In a few short years they have created what took Lord Toruk centuries to make, and such boldness has reaped its rewards. Everblight has already found and consumed one of its siblings, the dragon Pyromalfic, and by doing so he has made himself the equal of Blighterghast in power, an unprecedented feat among the dragons in recorded history. This action did not go unnoticed, however. Blighterghast, after being made aware of his sibling's destruction, has sent a call out to the other dragons of the alliance across their athancs, warning them of the movements of their once weak, disembodied sibling. By making such a bold move Everblight has made himself the enemy of all his siblings, who even now have mobilized to ascertain the validity of this new threat. Toruk, too, has not remained ignorant of his progeny's actions. Word has reached the Nightmare Empire of a blighted army that has risen in the north, an army which bears the unmistakable mark of a dragon Toruk once sought to consume, but was thwarted by cunning and treachery. As his progeny begin to stir Toruk has sent his most powerful agents to the mainland, dispatching them to the north to find this wayward and arrogant dragon whelp so that he might finish the job he once started.

So it is plain to see that for all its power, the Legion is not invincible. Toruk moves to learn Everblight's whereabouts while the other dragons soar across the skies looking for signs of their would-be hunter. The druids of the Circle Orboros hound the Legion's every step too, using every tool in their vast arsenal to thwart the dragon's plans and save the natural world from Everblight's blighted influence. Yet for all the power its enemies can muster, no matter how fearsome its enemies may seem, the Legion has one ace up its sleeve. All the other dragons, the Circle Orboros, even Toruk himself are looking for something they'll never find: a dragon! For a dragon to consciously choose not to reform its ruined flesh is a possibility no dragon would ever comprehend, let alone actually consider. By remaining bodyless Everblight has given himself the greatest camouflage possible while still enabling him to work his will across untold distances through the shared consciousness of his warlocks. What's more, due to the unique nature of Everblight's divided athanc he is further ensuring his own survival. Even if one of his generals should fall to one of Everblight's siblings or to Lord Toruk and be consumed Everblight's essence will live on. As long as one shard of Everblight's athanc endures, so too shall Everblight. And that is perhaps Everblight's greatest weapon against his foes: his cunning. It has always been his greatest virtue, and it remains his greatest asset. All dragons may plot and plan, but none actually take the time to think as Everblight does. Even their vaunted Dragonfather cannot yet perceive the scope of the threat that this new army represents, and just like the doom that befell the Nyss it is Everblight's hope that by the time his enemies realize the truth it will already be too late.
>>
No. 98921 ID: 8013df

Skorne:
The Skorne civilization arose under the dominance of the empire of a race called the Lyoss. Skorne history tells us little about the Lyoss, other than the fact that they were a religious people, something the Skorne see as predicting their downfall. When a great cataclysm stretched across western Immoren, the Skorne easily outlasted the Lyoss, and changed from a nomadic lifestyle to a race with an empire of their own. The loosely-affiliated great houses of the Skorne empire happily made war amongst themselves for nearly 250 generations, until the coming of Vinter Raelthorne, the ousted King of Cygnar. Vinter was the first human the Skorne had ever seen, and he was able to slaughter his way through the Skorne ranks and establish himself as their Conqueror. Vinter was hailed as a Skorne reborn in human flesh, and told the Skorne that he would lead them back into human lands, granting them a vast new territory for their new empire.

With the aid of Saxon Orrick, the Skorne built bridges across the Abyss dividing Eastern and Western Immoren, and Vinter led an army across them. His campaign failed to return, and the Skorne elders assumed that he had died and so fell back on their old ways. However, Vinter returned once again and killed those who had usurped in his abscence. He had realised that his previous campaign was too small and ill-equipped to make a serious dent in the Iron Kingdoms, and so he supervised the militarisation of the entire Skorne nation. They built even mighter engines of war and marched across the Abyss once again, slaying their way through human and trollkin armies alike. However, it was not long after the second invasion that Vinter revealed his betrayal; he had never intended the Skorne to overtake the human lands. Rather, his consolidation of their armies was in the hope that he could retake the throne of Cygnar, and drive the Skorne out of the human nations to consolidate his rule. Fearing the power of the army he had created, Vinter ordered a futile attack on Fort Falk, which ended in a massive rout. Archdomina Makeda learned of Vinter's treachery, and took control of the army. Vinter has fled, and the Skorne are ready to subjugate all of humanity under their rule.
>>
No. 98922 ID: 8013df

Trollbloods:
The Trollbloods are a variety of related races, almost all of whom have distinctive blue skin, and all of whom trace their ancestry back to Trolls. Different races amongst the Trollbloods are categorised by how much trollish blood they have, although what the other blood is remains a mystery to all but the Troll mystics. The Pygmy Trolls, known as Pygs, are small goblin-like creatures with a great deal of technical sense, rat cunning, and thickheaded impulsiveness. The Trollkin are the most civilised of trolls, with a tribal society and a strong sense of honour. True Trolls are somewhat monstrous, with only a modicum of intelligence, but a great deal of physical adaptability. The gigantic Dire Trolls are a raw bestial force that, until recently, even the Trollkin were afraid of.

The Trollbloods have long been recognised as powerful warriors by the human nations, and the humans have called upon them as allies in many a war. Unfortunately, the humans also see the Trollbloods as stupid creatures, not worthy of respect. Humans have allied with Trollbloods by promising the Trollbloods land and respect, but these promises never quite come through. The Trollbloods have no understanding of political subtlety or public opinion; they only understand honour, and will not see a promise broken. As such, the Trolls have made war with the humans far more often than they have allied with them. This constant series of wars has led the humans to develop newer and more powerful technology to fight them, up to and including the Warjack itself. For a long time, the Trollblood forces could do nothing against the Warjacks of humanity. However, Hoarluk Doomshaper has recently extended his mastery over Trolls to include the Dire Trolls, beasts more than capable of tearing a Warjack in half. The Trollbloods march to war once again, and this time they are ready to see their slights repaid a hundred times over with humanity's blood.
>>
No. 98935 ID: 5ad4a7

Lol, those dice rolls. We've created a monster!
>>
No. 98938 ID: 02422f

>>/quest/714566
>Question: How does I gets my statistics tracked on the wiki?
Well, you either wait for your quest to get stat heavy enough that a reader takes it upon themselves to document it, or you just do it yourself?

You can either throw it all up on one page like with Magic Kingdom Quest, or if you feel it's going to get too table / number / spoiler heavy you can make a subpage for stats with http://www.tgchan.org/wiki/Template:QuestState

(Something like {{QuestState|page=Stats|sub=1|text=BLAH BLAH'S STATISTICS}} would work).

If you want to have nice little stat card images like >>/quest/714568 , you can upload images directly to the wiki. This might be handy, since you're allowed to upload new revisions of images, meaning you could change them as stats change, but there would still be a record to look back on.

tl;dr- If you're looking for advice on how to do a specific thing in the wiki, I can probably tell you how to make it work.
>>
No. 98940 ID: 8013df

>>98935
A stealthy, strong-as-a-warbeast, agile, speedy, troll-assassinating troll of monster.
...
Dear god I feel like doctor fucking frankenskorne now.
>>
No. 98971 ID: 59a537

I think most of the readers are not familiar with what the various stats mean or what the units do. Maybe you could post descriptions of them here or on the wiki as they come up?
>>
No. 98972 ID: 59a537

Also descriptions of the Prince's spells/abilities would be good, since I am only seeing some of them on the wiki.
>>
No. 98974 ID: 59a537

Links to unit descriptions on a wiki I found:
http://battlecollege.org/Cyclops+Brute
http://battlecollege.org/Cyclops+Raider
http://battlecollege.org/Reptile+Hound
http://battlecollege.org/Aradus+Sentinel

http://battlecollege.org/Lord+Assassin+Morghoul
>>
No. 98991 ID: 8013df

Alright, here are Prince's Spells
http://battlecollege.org/Ghost+Walk
http://battlecollege.org/Flashing+Blade
http://battlecollege.org/Death%20Ward
His advantages
http://battlecollege.org/Stealth
http://battlecollege.org/Maltreatment
http://battlecollege.org/Apparition
http://battlecollege.org/Warcasters+%26+Warlocks

And here are the hordes quickstart rules. It would be best to look over them.
http://privateerpress.com/files/Hordes%20MkII%20DemoRules-WEB.pdf
>>
No. 98993 ID: 8013df

Some things I put up on my old work drive.
Sentinel:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B85bX2eTNABSS0UxWXVrb3ZCRFE
Brute:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B85bX2eTNABSYVlScmZGWjNrTkE
Hound:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B85bX2eTNABSS0F0Q3FzdkpBUnM
Raider (This one's kind of shitty):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B85bX2eTNABSMG1nY0VTbEhzczA
>>
No. 98994 ID: a788b7

>>98972

So, here's how this shit works, just sort of moving down his abilities.

Speed is simple, it's how far he moves.
STR mostly factors into dealing damage. It matters a lot more if you're a warbeast than it does if you're a person, but it does tie in to resisting a number of warjack/warbeast abilities.

MAT determines how good he is at landing attacks with melee weapons.

RAT is the same for ranged weapons.

DEF is not getting hit.

ARM is not taking damage when getting hit.

The core roll for the system is 2d6 + number vs number. Making an attack in most situations is 2d6 + (Mat or Rat) vs Target's Defense. Matching defense hits. If any two final dice from an attack roll are the same, the attack is a critical, this means absolutely nothing for Prince but will start to matter if Archidons start tossing dudes around a bit. Generally speaking consider that any attack has roughly a 1/6 chance of being a critical hit (before miss chance), while any boosted attack (which we'll get to later) has a 4/9 chance. Again though, prince gains nothing from crits so it's not worth worrying about.

Damage Rolls are P(ow) for ranged and magic attacks or P(ow)+S(trength) for melee and thrown attacks +2d6 - Target Armor. This means that the protagonist's spear has a power of 16 and weapon master (which makes it roll 3d6 instead of 2d6) and is still his worse weapon since his Throwing Knives can make 4-6 attacks (2-4 without spending ANY resources) at p+s 12 with grievous wounds. Also RAT 8 is considerably better than MAT 6 since the rolling system means results are on a bell curve.

Matching Armor on a damage roll does 0 damage, the total roll must be HIGHER than the armor to do damage.

CMD doesn't matter at all with Prince's spells and no troops, and honestly doesn't matter all that much anyway.

Fury is the warlock stat and is really complicated to explain even if it's pretty simple in practice. It also determines a warlock's control area, which is double their fury stat (8" for prince)

Moving on to his abilities and what they mean:

Warlock has a million different sub-rules, Since it includes the entire fury system and also fearless. Also being a warlock (or warcaster) immediately makes you immune to a number of specific effects because you're too important.

Fury is a resource Warlocks have. Prince has 4. They start any given battle with Fury equal to their fury stat and can never have more than that.

Warlocks can spend fury to do several things:
1a - Boost an attack roll (add an extra d6)
1b - Boost a Damage roll (add an extra d6)
- note that since we don't have a cyclops savage, the decision to boost comes BEFORE rolling.
2 - Spend Fury equal to the 'Cost' of a spell to cast that spell.
3 - Spend Fury equal to the 'Cost' of a warbeast's animus to cast that animus as a spell. It counts as both an animus AND a spell when cast in this manner, which is important.
4 - Spend fury on a one-to-one basis to recover health.
5 - Spend Fury on a one-to-one basis to heal a warbeast in control area for 1 health (which can come from anywhere on their damage track you choose).
6 - Spending 1 fury at the beginning of a turn allows a warlock to immediately remove a number of status effects, most notably including knockdown and stationary but also including shadowbind and black oil.
7 - Buy extra attacks. Can be done indefinitely for melee, but ranged attacks are limited by their RoF stat (this means prince can only buy two extra attacks with his knives)
8 - When a warlock takes damage, they can spend a point of fury in response to have a warbeast in their control area take the damage instead.
9 - Some spells are upkeepable, if a warlock wants to upkeep them they have to spend 1 fury per spell AFTER they gain fury on a turn. Death Ward is Prince's only upkeep spell.

A warlock generates fury in two ways (for the most part).
1 - A warlock can, at the beginning of their turn, gain fury by taking damage at a 1/1 basis.
2 - Leech it off of warbeasts
3 - Prince has Maltreatment so once per turn (during his action) he can take a point of fury off of one of his warbeasts in exchange for dealing it a small amount of armor-ignoring damage.

Warbeasts ALSO use fury, though they do it backwards. Warbeasts have a fury stat but start with no fury on them. A warbeast can be 'Forced' by a warlock (which takes no action) to do a number of effects by gaining a point of fury.
It's basically the same list except warbeasts can't transfer damage and don't have spells, plus a warbeast can also gain a point of fury to do a power attack INSTEAD OF making its initial attacks.
The only power attacks that REALLY matter for the crew we've got right now are:
Slam - charge an enemy, hit them, knock them back and down and they collide with whatever they hit on the way.
Headbutt - knock the target down where they stand.
Also when a warbeast uses its own animus it doesn't count as a spell.

Moving down:

Reach is the best ability in the game, it means that your melee range is 4x as far as it would be otherwise (in the tabletop it's 2" compared to the normal 1/2")
Weapon Master means, when rolling damage, add an extra die.

Thrown weapons are ranged weapons that add the user's Strength to their Pow.
Grievous Wounds means that anything damage by the weapon can't be healed, can't be tough, and can't transfer damage if it's a warlock.
Strafe is more complicated, it's a *Attack which means that if you want to use it it takes the place of your initial attacks, it gives d3+1 attacks (so 2-4, and on average 3), and its targeting is very specific. You choose ONE target to be the core of the 'strafe' attack. You can also make the additional attacks against anything within 2" of the core target, and ignore any models between you and them (so people can't hide behind other people). You can't target any non-core target with more attacks than the core target. No matter what you roll, it only counts as one RoF.

Flashing Blade is a one-cost spell that lets you immediately make a melee attack at all enemies in your melee range (so 2" for prince). Since it's a spell, you can cast it at any time during your turn but can't interrupt movement for it. It's pretty OP if you have an overpowered weapon =V.

Ghost Walk is mostly useless for now, it costs 2 or 3 (I can't remember which and don't want to look it up) and lets the targeted model (or unit if it's a group of the same dudes!) ignore free strikes and walk through any sort of terrain or unit freely. It does NOT let them see through these things!
Death Ward is an upkeep spell that I'm reasonably sure costs 2 and gives +2 armor to the model or unit it's cast on. Also it has extra rules if it's on a warjack that are great but we don't have warjacks and I don't think they actually apply to warbeasts (Since IIRC there's no warlocks with death ward)? If they do it lets them choose where they take damage, more or less, so it's real good. Otherwise it's still something that should probably always be up on the front line since Prince doesn't really need his fury.

Stealth means all ranged and magic attacks from more than 5" away automatically miss. Some attacks don't need to hit to wreck your shit, and anything that automatically hits bypasses this (aggressive rules always trump defensive rules for tiebreakers in warmachine). also 90% of things have some means available to ignore it, though usually it requires something else to help them out.
Maltreatment lets a warlock pull fury off a beast during their turn. It's a good rule that prince has nearly no reason to ever use.
Apparition means you teleport 2" at the start of every turn for free.

The last important rule is that warbeasts also have a 'threshold' stat. It's really important! Warbeasts can do a lot of stuff being forced, but you can only pull so much fury off of them in a turn. You can't just 'waste' that fury, a warlock can only pull enough fury to fill up their tank. Any fury left on a warbeast after your warlock pulls fury off makes them mad! The roll there is 2d6+fury vs the beast's 'threshold' stat If the roll is higher, the beast immediately frenzies.

A frenzying beast checks against the following list of actions, in order, and uses its turn to do that and ONLY that - and it does this immediately before you have the chance to do anything else:
1 - If there is an enemy model in melee range, make one attack against that model with the highest available P+S melee weapon with boosted attack and damage.
2 - If there is a friendly model in melee range, same thing.
3 - If there is an enemy model engaging the warbeast, turn to face it directly, approach if necessary, and make the same attack.
4 - Charge the nearest model it can see (stealth has nothing to do with this)
5 - Walk directly toward the nearest model it can't see and attack if it gets in range

I can answer other questions later this basically covers Prince's abilities.
>>
No. 98996 ID: 8013df

You know, when I said I'll try not to clutter the discussion, that doesn't give you permission to do it yourself
Wow guys. Thanks for the help. Putting this up on the wiki should help out with incoming people ^.^. Especially thanks to >>98994. You explained it better than I could have!
>>
No. 99090 ID: 8013df

Am I a bad person for laughing at the fact that with one hit both the mind and spirit of the raider is cripplee?
>>
No. 99136 ID: 0eaeaf

Anyone else excited for Mk III? I can't wait to go to lock and load >_<. I'm really excited for spirit bonds, which will really help with the end game. Just one problem for me though and my cryx: with the new power up rule, does that mean seethers get 2 focus a turn? Can't wait >.<
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