That's basically the long and short of it.

>>313197
So what you're saying, basically, is that if someone feels more expressive in text than pixels, and they don't want to ruin the image in the text with horribad art, they may as well not even try?

Anonymous 2009/09/28(Mon)19:57 No. 3399 ID: 43d730
File 125419303456.jpg - (115.78KB , 1069x491 , nowfuckoff.jpg )

I had this all prepped for him.

I do like to have visual aids, but the writing can make up for it.
Furthermore, everyone deserves a go.
Not to point fingers, but I woul rather have to minimise several Silencequests to know that whenever I do eventually end up trying my hand at it that I won't be laughed off the board.

I'd kinda rather they post them on the text board. They update really really fast and tend to push other quests off page one. Especially when there are several going at the same time.

>>313200
Who goes to /txt/, bro? I don't. I imagine if I posted a thread there, there would be ZERO REPLIES for DAYS.

>>313201
I as much as it seems bad, that's a decent compromise.
Post what pics are needed here and advertise in the same thread.
Enough people visit /questdis/ that the bleedover should keep it going.
Now if only whatsisface that was doing that zombie/monster/thingquest would show back up...

>>313202
>zombie/monster/thingquest

Wat?

And I've always thought this was accepted? It's how I started, and how I plan to continue.

Looks like I was too late to give any opinion in the actual thread, so here goes.

I'd agree that you should at least have some representation, whether you use sprites or MS Paint scribbles or... anything really. The End's art is great for what it does, Dorfquest probably had some of the worst art in any quest at all at times, and people still love these.

Personally, I think that the way you handled the quest itself and especially the characters involved was downright terrible. I cringed when you killed off Shadran and then Kyaos in no time at all and the entire quest felt like it was just so that your character could be buddies with characters from more popular quests or something. No offense, but having read through most of the quest, it felt like you had no idea how to write for any of the characters, or how to write for a plot in general. It honestly felt like bad fanfiction trying to include as much as possible.

Oh, and asking people for permission in the IRC does not count unless you PM them. I know you didn't actually get permission from a few of the character's creators used in this particular quest.

Really, the only thing your quest going for it was that it was a crossover, and it was a terrible crossover at that. What else can I say? It seemed to have little to no effort behind it and ripped off more popular quests, pretty much what makes up the definition of "Worst quest on the board."

>>313205
No, over in /txt/.
Was that you?

>>313206
Not what this thread is about, but okay okay I get it goddamn. Not doing that ever again.

>>313207
Nope.

About TextQuests in their own right... honestly, I've not really followed any of them. Usually they fail to catch my interest at all; the only one that did catch my interest, AntQuest, updated so fast that I felt lost within the first day. AntQuest is currently on my 'to read later' list.

So I'd love to be able to point to, say, AntQuest and say 'see, it can be done!', but... I honestly cannot attest to its quality or lack thereof, as I haven't read it proper. It seems to stay afloat, which is good, and what I read early on was good.

I wouldn't worry too much about art and 'head-image' clashes, though. That's always going to happen. DorfQuest was freaking epic, and look at its art. Really now.

>>313210
What I'm saying is the one I ran into during the War Arc of Before Quest, that is to say, I couldn't do justice to the vision in my head with the art I was capable of. Or Yorick Quest, which I still cannot find sprites or backgrounds for.

>>313214
As someone that dearly needs to take this advice themselves, just do it.
If you're lucky, they'll think it's stylistic.
If you aren't lucky, they will, probably shit up the thread. But then they'll be in the wrong by the rules and you can call the mods.
It's win-win, except the unfortunate esteem hit from said up-shitting.

http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/vania/DraculaXStyle/SoTN/

Here's all the sprites you could ever need for Yorick, and there are sprites for a lot of the different games on there. As for the backgrounds, I'd suggest getting an emulator and disabling the character sprite layers to get the exact stage you want straight from whatever game you want to use. The SNES ones would probably be best for that. Might wanna turn on some Game Genie codes in the emulator for that too.

Buy a tablet and start practicing.

>>313258
>Buy a tablet

Need money for that, brosef

I am also in favor of drawing, because I think people are generally underconfident in their ability to make representational images, not because I think it inherently makes quests better. I will admit I usually use art to form a first impression on whether or not I should read something, but I lurk 'round here enough that I usually end up reading everything anyway. I discover that some draw quests are shit, some text quests are shit, but more and more I find that it depends so much more on the quest writer than the art.

To use an analogy you will all be familiar with, I suppose I liken the use of art in a quest to the use of a battle map in a pen&paper RPG. Sometimes it really helps, and some people are so used to it that they find it hard to function without one. Some game styles really wouldn't work without one, a select few wouldn't work WITH one, and some can get by with just a half-assed approximation. I don't see why that should affect the discussion about whether or not they are valid examples of the genre, or if they require different categorical listings.

and yeah, Trip, sorry to say, the Grail War quest leaves a lot to be desired in execution. The pacing is alarming, it presupposes a lot of background knowledge from the audience, and it seems like it got caught up in its own rule system. Yorick on the other hand feels just dandy, and while it is no MudyQuest, I do enjoy it and wish to see more.

>>313210
(Ant Quest has slowed down considerably lately, Bob only gets suggestions for a few updates a day now, instead of the "Oh god if I don't respond within 15 minutes I won't get my opinion heard" we started with. You should totally catch up. It gets lonely in there sometimes.)

>>313259
I use a 70 dollar Bamboo.

>>313258

I don't use a tablet. Granted, drawing things by mouse in MSPaint is GODDAMN ANNOYING and I probably could draw better with one, but I don't think "making a quest" is a good enough reason alone to justify buying a tablet.

i am of the opinion that if it's a quest, it goes in the quest board. art, no art, photographs of locations, ASCII renditions of body parts, 1st image off of google, anything. as long as the intent is to quest, it should go on the quest board, regardless of what other people think of it. I would rather wander through 3 pages of quests i don't like to find one i do, than to segregate quests based upon the talents or lack thereof of the authors.
that said, >>313199 's picture holds great truths for people who don't want to see text quests.

>>313283
Speaking personally, improving my art is one of the reasons I made a quest in the first place.

....Wait, what did I miss here?

>>313311
You missed:
Some people do not read ant quest because it does not have stick figures of ants harvesting flowers or something... honestly I'm not sure what you would draw most of the time, and the photos work great... and as a blanket statement these people think quests without drawings should not go on the quest board. Others disagree.
Some people are intimidated by the size and update speed of your quest and have not been following along as a result.
Also IIT: drawing tablets! cost/benefit analysis

I think that about sums it up.

>>313331
Yes, yes, we all know your tablet and art are fantastic.

>>313312
>drawing tablets! cost/benefit analysis

Cost: Not a problem if you have a job and can manage you money.

Benefits: You can fucking draw shit, god damn look at that fucking stylus! That is a sweet fucking stylus! That shit has two switches on it! TWO!

>Worst quest on the board.

DMC Quest was worse.

>>313350
I'll admit that I have ashamed myself, reading over it again.

That said, DMCQuest is an example of art taking away from the quest.

>>313405
Not really. The art was bad, but the main problem with it was that it was poorly used.
And there really wasn't much to take away from, the text was atrocious too.

Hmmm........ We need a textboard that allows images. Maybe I'm crazy.

I rather have text quests then quests with shitty drawings, like pokemon quest

>>313662

The guy says in his second pic that it's shittily drawn. He still gets a lot of people posting and he doesn't take himself very serious. I know I enjoy it. He certainly tries, and his art has improved slightly. I applaud him for making an effort.

I think you mean "I would" by the way. Learn 2 English.

Personally, I think that if you don't want to draw that much, you shouldn't have to. Separating the text of the textquests from the needed pics(AntQuest's maps/photos, etc.) would just be inconvenient for all involved. Besides, there's a hide thread button for a reason.

I'm almost afraid to mention it, but there are options besides drawing to get quest art. Damn near everyone has a camera, and aspiring quest makers could use wargaming/Lego/whatever figurines, or make something out of modeling clay, or even get some very loyal friends to help out
Visuals always help, and even if they don't convey as much as you'd like them to, it's not like any of us are lacking in the imagination department.

If it's a problem of filling the first page and pushing the image quests back, just make another board for them. I don't think it should be a text only board though, even text quests can have a useful image now and then.

Other than that, don't like it, don't read it.

Insomnia 2009/10/02(Fri)09:25 No. 3995 ID: 1c907d
File 125450071812.png - (6.22KB , 333x333 , wordswordswords.png )

Ehem. *Slides on her glasses and begins to go through all of this.*

>>313198
>...they don't want to ruin the image in the text with horribad art, they may as well not even try?

I am going to cut to the main crux of the matter in the perspective of the people who spend an extra amount of time drawing (regardless of skill).

The quests in which people spend several minutes to hours of time into updating are dropped halfway down or further at times due to the text quests, or ones with minimal effort.

Rather than instantly taking it as an insult, just consider the amount of time some of the questers put not only into their writing, but their artwork as well.

I'm not going to debate whether or not the writing is good or bad in between the two types because it's not really important and more of a case to case scenario.

Myself, for example, I see many mistakes in my grammar, writing, and sometimes errors in my art. I don't pain myself to edit them as the point has usually gotten across, and people often respond before I can even start fixing them--but that is moving aside.

From conversations held in #tgchan, I can establish that some of the quest makers are very irritated at this. They spend a lot of time working out the game, story, as well as a proper visual aid, and in the snap of one's fingers, they're buried underneath the pile.

As for what was said directly, I don't know what to tell you. Someone else responded to that well enough, what with how some of the other questers started with no ability and have improved vastly.

Especially since this complaint is coming from what I can see is an already running quest with people responding and playing with it. I doubt they would leave suddenly because there are novice drawings coming with the game.

>>313201
>I imagine if I posted a thread there, there would be ZERO REPLIES for DAYS.

I would not imagine this to be true, if we did create a txt quest board, or asked it to be moved there.

Many of the text quest hosts have a decent player base, and people interested in reading them would be checking it. The number of eyes who see your quest might diminish, but it would be the eyes who don't want to read text quests in the first place, hence why they don't check.

>>313210
>DorfQuest was freaking epic, and look at its art. Really now.

That is most certainly true. Dorf Quest, Ruby Quest, Kara Quest, and several of the successful quests have had minimalistic art, focused on speed and storytelling.

I think that's what some of you miss. The art is there to show things.

To change things, dynamic characters, and backgrounds; your players taking note of changes, and new things unraveled and puzzles to solve amidst all the words themselves.

The pictures slow you down, but allow you to immerse your players in a world.

You can do this with text. But it can be a lot more entertaining to throw a well designed puzzle through a picture, or series of pictures, than it would be to painstakingly describe the visuals of the puzzle, and everything around.

>>A bunch of numbers

There is a lot of talk about tablets. Tablets are really cheap if you want one just to have one and can help.

I personally have a gigantic ass tablet I got as my graduation present, but sometimes I regret it because it can be a pain in the ass to draw on (especially in my dorm). My recommendation would be to try and take your monitor, drawing space, and what you are used to drawing into account.

Beyond tablets, you guys do not NEED to use MSPaint. Ignoring piracy entirely, you can use GIMP, and use custom brushes and craft visuals with ease. (Ruby Quest being a prime example).

>>Finally.
>My Personal opinion.

I have a problem with trying to read things in large chunks. Gigantic blocks of text can take me ages to read, or the right mood to go through them.

An irony I know because I am writing one right now.

I don't think text quests are bad, as I used to dream of being a writer.

However, there really is no excuse in terms of not being able to try, or succeed in putting artwork with your posts. There are an incredible amount of options for you, a few new ones I didn't think of listed:
>>313789

So yeah, I think it's a good idea to create a separate board for text quests, and the request to make it an image board by a couple of you is definitely noted.

It is true that there is a hide button, but as history has shown, even on 4chan, nobody bothers using it.

It could be a good compromise, but I completely empathize with the text quest runners. I am not insulting your format. I also think the ones in play have a fan base, and would continue to thrive.

People who want to read and play text quests would go there.

If that's not true, we could always repeal it.

I don't get the point of making a separate 'text quest' board. The board is /quest/, not /quests with pictures/ and especially not /quests with a certain quality art/. Quest authors who do take the time to make high quality art will have people read their stuff no matter how buried it gets by rapid posting text quests or crappyart quests.

As a counter example, how about instead of making a text quest only board, we make a high quality art only board? Sure it might update a bit slower, but those updates will be 'better' and they'll stay on page one longer. And they have a large following that will surely follow them there.


And something I think you might be missing, Insomnia, is that not everyone can show things properly through their art. As How do I shot trip has said several times in Before Quest (and rightly so), he avoided creating a picture for a scene because there was no way he could do it justice. He described it beautifully in words that put an excellent scene in the reader's head, but if he had posted even his best attempt at putting the scene into a picture, it would have fallen way short of his intended effect, and the scene would have been worse off for it. Yes, you can draw well. Yes, you find pictures more entertaining. Yes, you find it hard to read a block of text. But that's not true for everyone. And they don't deserve segregation just by virtue of being different.

Also, I use the hide button all the time for quests I don't want to read... I don't get what you mean that people don't use it...

>>313796
I think you are getting too carried away with your response.

I don't believe that strongly as to whether or not it gets made into a new board or not. Discuss it in #tgchan with people in charge.

I am for it, but I don't mind them.

I said my opinion because that is what was asked in the topic of the thread. I believe I made sure to cover both sides, and their aspects without needing to be told that some people cannot do it.

>>313797
Well, the first half wasn't a response to you. It was just my general response to the thread.

But uh, yeah. Your response was obviously biased from the point of view that quests with pictures are normal and ones without are abnormal and substandard, and should strive to reach the same level as picture quests. You gave good advice on how to do so, but left out the possibility that it might not be necessary to do so.

>>313799

I believe I stated several times the quality wasn't in question.

I did mean for it to sound standard, as the basis was on pictures and text.

But if that was a general post rather than fully at me then A-OK.

>As How do I shot trip has said several times in Before Quest (and rightly so), he avoided creating a picture for a scene because there was no way he could do it justice.

Herein lies the crux of my entire argument, Insomnia. Right there. Read Operator Quest 1, and then read 2. LOOK AT MEIKO. GOOD LORD.

>>313810
That is why you write as well.

Doesn't sound like an argument, more of an anecdote, and I don't even understand what you are arguing.