Test Pattern 2010/06/13(Sun)23:14 No. 17635 ID: 8bdb6a
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>>327431
>>327432
Yeah, I agree that species shouldn't be stereotypes. On the other hand, if a bunch of quests had Volto named characters, and they were all overly cheerful, monosyllabic nincompoops (IE: the approximate opposite of the original example), you'd probably be pretty cheesed. Ashedel is the only nedynvor we've seen outside Journey that had a character other than "Big mean jerkface." (Though the KB one was just a midboss so hey)

(PS: Subjective subjecting subjectivity)

>Incidentally I don't think she is particularly off-model, but if someone feels otherwise I'd like to hear that criticism.
Disregarding the index talon thing, which you've already heard about, her legs bug me.

>>327435
The one on the left reminds me of the things from condemned.

1ac39d is me.

>>327432
>try to treat racial individuals as individuals, giving more thought to their region and culture than their species.

I actually noticed this most with Arabella. She's an Orc, yet every time we see her she's usually lying around reading.

>>327432

> treat racial individuals as individuals, giving more thought to their region and culture than their species.

That's why you get "Men in funny suits syndrome". The race doesn't matter since it's pretty much the same thing sans +1 or -1 to the stats. "If race X lives in a region X culture defines it" is flawed thinking, pointed out by many DMs as just "don't".


Every race has a lot of little things that make them different from human race.

Why Gnolls are matriarchal? Because hyenas are? Why hyenas are matriarchal? Because that's how their biology works.

Why humans find two meatbags in front of them attractive? That's because how our biology made boobs a distinctive sexual characteristic amongst ourselves.

Will Orcs eat vegetables if they have clearly carnivore teeth?

If you come off that "Racial behaviour = racist stereotyping", you really need to look into the fact that anatomy and biology differences between two fantasy species are way different than between humans living in different world regions. It really doesn't have to be a major thing everytime, but it could just be little things there and there.

>>327440
hello said more thought to culture, not 0 thought species. so a ned that grew up in a bad place would more likely be bad then otherwise.

>>327432
the reason that other races have specific mental characteristics is the same reason humans do. While you can't say that every person has certain personality traits or any sort of mental characteristic, there is definitely a pattern. The reason that an entire other species rather than just another race of humans would be different is a different biological heritage leading to a different outcome. Culture and upbringing also play an important part in shaping a personality, but genetics do account for a lot of an individual's personality. There is still room for variation, but there are definitely patterns. It can be hard to see them in people without taking a step back, since we're the only fully intelligent race we know of, but they're there. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions and such. If biology were fully in charge of our behavior, there would be no asexuals, suicidal people, homosexuals (chill, I'm just saying it doesn't have a chance of making babies), or anything else that didn't involve surviving, making babies, and then dying.

tl;dr
An individual is individual, but brain chemicals predetermine a decent portion of behavior.

Weaver 2010/06/14(Mon)04:49 No. 17651 ID: b4b04d
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>>327435
Duly noted. This diagram actually helps a lot, and I will be using it in the future as my cheat sheet.
Thanks.

>>327440
This is pretty stupid, if you ask me.
>Every race has a lot of little things that make them different from human race.
This especially, because such races don't actually exist. It's all speculation anyway.

It's lazy writing, more often than not just an effort to write one culture per race. In such fantasy worlds, there can be no distinction between "race" and "culture" because every race (save maybe the humans) only have one culture. The most you'll get is different tribes, who are usually about as variegated as their warpaint, and that's it.

>>327443
Your point is valid, but even the most basic human instincts are often overridden. What's one of the most basic possible things you can say about humanity? We are social animals. And yet, there are always hermits, loners, shut-ins, recluses. Some cultures are warlike. Some cultures are peaceful. Trying to write it all in to a single mantra is bad enough, but then (to get to the point I was making in the first place) detesting things that break this mold for being "inaccurate" is even worse.
The problem is that so often, in fantasy, a race IS a culture, and vice-versa. The few rare exceptions are anomalies, and even those are usually played for laughs.

Hey how come people are accusing Halting State of having a sergal for no reason? It sounds like people just looked at the discussion thread or the last few updates and went "Wait why is there a sergal" instead of actually reading the quest and seeing that we created the character's appearance ourselves.

Also it's just a custom body, so it only makes sense that he acts basically like a human.

>The target demographic for Romanticar, Valley of Love, Pink Dragon, Masturbating Rat Quest or whatever obviously has a higher number of people on tgchan. These people I guess get off on that stuff, but goddamn, just showing up for that is horribly horribly shallow.

Welcome to the entire goddamn point.

>I'm more annoyed about "serious" quest quitting before they're even finished or updating so slowly you don't give a shit anymore (Hi ClockworkSeal and others, you know who you are).

Until recently, I was running on a backup computer that sucked. To clarify how much it sucked, it takes about 5 minutes for it to begin accepting inputs once windows starts. It takes two and a half or so just to open Sai, and drawing in it usually gets about 3-8 seconds of lag between the actual motion and the lines actually starting to follow the cursor.

Here's the thing about Deep.

I hate it. Most of the suggestions that it gets are mind-numbingly retarded, but that's not even the suggestor's faults. I fucked up the entire presentation, didn't give a clear goal, and made a thousand basic mistakes in actually running the quest which caused it to pile up into a ridiculous mess. I'd like to finish it, but I honestly have no idea how to salvage it without railroading it with the heaviest of hands.

Chasing Stars is a lot of fun, but it is entirely too much work. The animation involved is incredibly time-consuming, and I actually have a job now.

Silhouette is basically right out. I had some plans for it, but I spent two days running the quest for one guy because nobody else bothered to post.

Boon is a good quest and I am interested in continuing it, but I don't like leaving Deep off in the middle of a 'part' like that to do it. I want to at least get to a pausing point in Deep before continuing Boon.

Clefable Quest (IE Pokemon Quest Gaiden) was intended to just be a goofy one-off for Pokemon Day that was mostly a Clefable being a jackass. And it succeeded about that! I could see myself picking it back up at some point in the future, but it works as a completed quest as is.

Plessy Quest is finished.

I want to finish the Cutebold Slaughterfest chapter, but I feel terrible posting art far below the quality of that in the quest proper and I'm terrible at coloring (and the quest is colored). It takes me an extremely long time to draw updates for it, and I have a job now (mentioned again for clarity) and Monster Hunter 3 came out just a few months ago. It might sound like a lame excuse, but I'm not getting paid for this. I do this as a hobby, because I enjoy it.

That's why Deep doesn't update, I'm still not sure how to get it to a point where I can enjoy it again. I don't WANT to abandon it and just leave it unfinished, but I don't have a clue how to continue it. I have tried to bring this up several times, but the community has invariably decided to talk about dicks or some text quest instead, and the subject has never actually been clarified. So don't even fucking TRY to tell me 'WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO,' because I fucking did. And the faggots who brought about ratsturbation quest and advertise Shoujen as 'A quest about lesbians! We helped one reach her first orgasm!' decided to bury it in shit.

>>327453
Halting State is fine with me for that very reason, the only problem I have with it is that the main character is a herm because herms creep me out.

I read it anyways, though.

>>327451
I'd like to point you to Vilous.

Sergals actually act differently than humans because of both biology and culture, and the Vilous continent is small enough to where there are two macro-cultures and many smaller cultures within. What most people think of when they say "Sergal culture" is the Northern Sergal Clan Shigu, of which Goshen and Aruuchi are both from. Sergal sexual dimorphism is practically non-existent, the only real difference seems to be a slimmer waist and slightly broader hips in the females, like in humans, but sergals have no difference in muscle mass between them, and sergal pregnancy doesn't hamper them nearly as much as it does humans. Plus, the infamous PCH gives females a little more power in the bedroom as well.

All this results in a complete lack of feminity among sergals and a society very, very different from ours from the get go. From here it is more effected by people and their decisions resulting in a more violent society than our current one, and somewhat similar to the mongolian society of old. Still, this was in turn effected by a stronger need for meat in their diet than in ours, which in turn effected some of their customs.

Nevreans have a bit of a stronger case: Their genders are switched compared to humans. The males are the fairer and weaker (muscularity wise) sex while the females have tough, strong bodies with bigger teeth and horns on their head. Yisi is actually a better example of a nevrean male than Liam is, as Mick and Kiki and I talked about this long after Hatchquest was underway.

What I think you have confused here, Weaver, is not having them act like a human, but act like a sapient. A sapient anything will make their own decisions and find their own path in life, like humans do, but this is the point: If you don't make use of their culture, biology and upbringing in their characterization, what is the point of making them an established race in a different setting? Like others, I feel like having a race in a new setting and then taking away everything that makes them what they are save for their appearance is rather insulting.

If I'm one of those quest abandoners people were talking about, I apologize. I've been dealing with some personal shit lately and have since tried to force my way through said shit. I'm trying to update Riarda more, I just frequently get the feeling that I've run myself into a corner or wasted updates and such. I'm workin' on it.

>>327431
>Incidentally I don't think she is particularly off-model, but if someone feels otherwise I'd like to hear that criticism.

As pointed out before, the legs. Ashedel's legs are plantigrade blade feet rather than digigrade blade feet as is the canon, as well, Nedynvor do not possess mammary glands in the canon setting. It is actually worth noting that Ashedel's crest design DID actually influence the canon design for female Nedynvor's crests.

That being said, I've talked to Weaver already regarding this and there's no real problem here. Ashedel is basically his take on the Nedynvor concept and thus slightly altered in design to fit the Dive-verse. I'm coo with it, He seems coo with the whole situation, so it's not really a big deal. I'm going to end this now as I'm operating on about 45 minutes of sleep in the past 48 hours and I get the feeling that I'm rambling.

>>327432
after thought; I agree with the silliness of "This race is evil because they're ALL dicks, no exceptions" thing that seems to happen a lot in fantasy settings.

People making Nedynvor be mean, or jerks, or what ever doesn't break any sort of racial paradigm or something for them, as there are canonically dick Nedynvor in Layridin since their personalities are INDIVIDUAL personalities, there's no specific way that Nedynvore as a whole act

I would never ever use someone else's races in any of my quests. Ever.

>>327459

>>If you don't make use of their culture, biology and upbringing in their characterization, what is the point of making them an established race in a different setting?
The point is because they look neat, or it's a slight nod to another quest.

>>327461
That's complete bullshit.

If all they like about the race is the physical appearance they should not be using the race at all. Make a similar race, call them something different or for goodness sake, make up a race of your own. The ONLY reason someone would use a specific race in this situation is to try to ride the coat-tails of another quest, as there is literally no excuse for it.

ANY quest author that uses a pre-established race SIMPLY for it's physical appearance and removes all other attributes of the race is an unimaginative fuck who I will make no effort to feel welcome here.

>>327462
Just for the sake of the argument, name some quests that a) borrow a race properly, b) borrow a race improperly and c) are an exception or just have some acceptable reason/excuse for not being fully proper.
Preferably with critical commentary.

>>327463

a) borrow a race properly

Cutebold slaughterfest.

b) borrow a race improperly

DiveKnightBladesQuest

c) are an exception or just have some acceptable reason/excuse for not being fully proper.

NORTHERN SERGAL!

>>327463
A & B I did in the OP (CSF and Ratsurbation Quest, respectively), and C I did in another post, Halting State.

But to clarify, Halting State has a reason for it in quest, and the main character admits his/her new body was based upon the sergal design in the questdis thread I believe. Unlike some people I have had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting, he is literally a human in a sergal body, and his new external appearance doesn't change who he is.

I have to say, it's somewhat refreshing.

>>327455
If you're tired of the quest and you hate it, just ham-handedly railroad it into a conclusion. Or completely abandon it, since odds are by now no one has the slightest idea of what the hell we were supposed to be doing anyway.

Really, any option that leads to you bringing back Boon is okay with me. :V

>>327456
Your point is noted, but I said "most" fantasy settings. I'm sure there are some that make the races more in-depth and culturally relevant to their upbringing.
To restate more clearly most fantasy worlds disregard the influence of culture or mash it down to only one culture per race. Instead of the "men with funny suits" trope, it becomes a "one particular type of foreigners with funny suits" situation.
My point is that in such worlds, there's no consideration for individuals. Like you said, race, culture, upbringing should all be considered. These worlds only consider the first one. Orcs are orcs. Goblins are goblins.

Admittedly such a world has a lot of benefits. In an RPG setting it's easy for the players to know right away what they're dealing with if they run into members of a given race, monstrous or civilized. It's easy to write for. It makes clear delineations.
But for more in-depth projects, I feel far too many worlds take this path, and it feels like just lazy writing. Every individual acts the same way because they're influenced solely by their race, their culture is homogeneous, and individuals are never exceptions (except again, for humor value).

>>327459
>I would never ever use someone else's races in any of my quests. Ever.
I get the joke!

>b) borrow a race improperly
>DiveKnightBladesQuest
Man
are you serious

>>327469

I think he's quite serious, Weaver. I know Lucid is ok with that character existing, but the fact of the matter is that you just put a big-titted quest race in there so your self-insert could bone it. I honestly liked Dive until that.

Oh and also Weaver you only asked "permission" after you inserted the character already. Lucid's a nice guy and isn't gonna say no when asked after the fact like that.

>>327464
You forgot your critical commentary.

>>327472
>Oh and also Weaver you only asked "permission" after you inserted the character already. Lucid's a nice guy and isn't gonna say no when asked after the fact like that.
I know. I already conceded this point. I still feel bad about it. I've since tried to adapt the Dive interpretation of Nedynvor to a more tailored means (as I've done with all the other races, too) but I still try to use her sparingly because the way I introduced her was just so stupid. I didn't know anything about them, I just stuck them in as a sort of shout-out and I fucked it up awfully. She even has tits because I didn't know they weren't supposed to have any. It's just terrible.
I'll admit that.
I have admitted that.

Now Weaver, in penance, don't update DiveQuest anym-

Oh wait beat me to it.

>>327470
I don't even... whut?

Self-Insert? Unless Weaver desires to be a failure and mockery of a Machiavellian leader, an accidental mass murderer, and socially inconsequential lunatic who spends his time plotting in a cave except to troll the neighboring civilized folk I think I may be seeing some problems here.

>>327476

Weaver DID just admit it. (lol)

>>327476
Weaver's self-insert is actually Finesse.

Weaver 2010/06/14(Mon)14:36 No. 17679 ID: b4b04d
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>>327477
>>327475
>>327472
>>327470
Damn your IP changes fast.

Anyway in response to these criticisms I thought I should leak my newest character design, Bonkers the Sergal.
Actually he's just 1/3rd sergal, he's also 1/3rd hedgehog and 1/3rd mewtwo (the mewtwo part is also a vampire)

he uses one uzi and one desert eagle and he has a katana made of souls from the one million people he's killed
but he's light hearted and a practical joker and really sensitive to what other people think about him, he's also reclusive and seems like a shut in but when people get to know him he's a true friend
he has god like powers because of all the gods he killed, he can be hurt but regenerates health faster than a bullet
age 15

i fucked up his sunglasses so just imagine they're on there

>>327479
You didn't spell it "DEAGLE", what the hell is the matter with you? You have shamed your family!

>>327479
oh god he's mpreg

sajindarkwizardkillerdirge 2010/06/14(Mon)14:43 No. 17682 ID: 9cb4b3
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>>327479
truley a master after my own heart

>>327479
that reminds me of drizzt hes my favorite book character

I wonder if that thing is related to the half volto from Mudy Quest 2. Maybe they'll team up to fight crime!

>>327479
sometimes it's hard for me to tell if you're an artistic genius or the greatest troll of all time.

Fredrick!FaGGoTTciw 2010/06/14(Mon)16:33 No. 17688 ID: badf27
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>a whole bunch of nonsense

Ruby thinks this is STUPID. She blasts off with a stolen ROCKET PACK.

Mneme!CRITTerXzI 2010/06/14(Mon)16:47 No. 17691 ID: c4c313
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>>327426

No, I'm-

>>327435
>>327431

DANCE YOUR CARES AWAY,
WORRY'S FOR ANOTHER DAY.
LET THE MUSIC PLAY
DOWN AT FRAGGLE ROCK.

ok now I'm trolling.

It's not that Nedynvors are depicted as being criminals or bullies, it's that they're depicted as large, brutish creatures with huge pummeling fists when they're actually lightweight and somewhat frail. It's not a matter of personality, it's a matter of completely ignoring their physiology.

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:30 No. 17699 ID: d560d6
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>>327488
Ruby, wait! You've forgotten someone!

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:31 No. 17700 ID: d560d6
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...

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:31 No. 17701 ID: d560d6
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..?

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:32 No. 17703 ID: d560d6
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BEST END

>>327503
*applause*

>>327492
>It's not that Nedynvors are depicted as being criminals or bullies, it's that they're depicted as large, brutish creatures with huge pummeling fists when they're actually lightweight and somewhat frail. It's not a matter of personality, it's a matter of completely ignoring their physiology.
I'm pretty sure this again comes down to the idea of exceptions. Especially if they work at it, I'm sure there can be physically-intimidating Nedynvor fighters, just like there can be pansy-ass scrawny orcs. There can be dwarf giants and dwarves with giantism.

Unless you meant Ashedel. She's not really brutish with pummeling fists. In fact the most combat-worthy thing she did, besides getting thoroughly beaten by Coriander after her surprise attack was shrugged off, was rough up an old man.

>>327505
I don't even think it should come down to exceptions. Just a list of generalities that can be followed but also diverged from. We know that the average person is social, brash, and always striving for more. But luckily we aren't all cookie cutter pieces (though too many people are for my liking). There's a whole decent-sized portion of the population that doesn't like socializing, though. There are an infinite number of mental and physical anomalies that any person, or member of any sentient species can poses. And any given individual probably has hundreds. So I guess there SHOULD be a rule, but "exceptions" should actually be more common, with the rule still being the biggest group but nowhere near an overall majority.

>>327505
They have to be lightweights in order to fly. Although even then it's just barely possible.

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)22:39 No. 17716 ID: f58d30
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>>327503
Holy. Shit.

The thing is that Nedynvor wouldn't be threatening in the punchy sense, rather they'd be threatening in the "our feet are blades and will kill you dead" sort of way.

I still kinda cringe a bit when I think about how Deme pumped his leg into The Admiral over and over and really skewered his guts like that.

He'll be avenged. One day.

I'm late here, but

>b) borrow a race improperly
>DiveKnightBladesQuest
Borrowed races there work just like all the other races. Which is to say, they say very little about a character, except sometimes cultural background (all cats are criminals, all Voltos are nobility) affiliations (goblins seem to be fairly isolationist societies, largely ignoring other settlements) and often mean basically nothing (the Nedynvor and Mudkip, and to a lesser extent, ogre).

This is not a realistic take on racial differences really, but it doesn't have to be. The races are primarily visual differentiators, which aid the more simple art style in effectively conveying information. There is no complicated racial politics nor real biological logic, but there doesn't have to be. Not all quests need to emphasize that sort of thing.