It's pretty awesome thus far. Although her head gets a bit too big at times. Other then that I like it. Pretty fast updates, good art and an interesting storyline.

Grandpa skull is awesome.

i keep getting the feeling we will end with a loli lich.

wich utterly confuses me.

>>323092
is that a pimp furlined hat
yes
it is
11 out of 10

This quest. This quest breaks away from the gravity of itself. This quest is about necromancy and necromancy kiczcxx ass! It's EPIC. This quest is epic.

Thank you all for your kind words.
I started experimenting with art styles again, how do you feel about this one?

my god it's pretty. Also, Terribly big. Might just be a resolution issue, though, so no biggie.

Oh right, I gotta paint it big for technical reasons. Will try to remember to resize it for consumption from now on.

I didn't really notice it being so big (I gots me a hueeeg screen)

So... does no one know what Hydrogen Peroxide is? It's a disinfectant. There should be some in Tiffany's house, wherever they keep bandaids and gauze and stuff. It won't be pure, but it should work fine.

yeah, got some under my sink.

Actually, hydrogen peroxide is also used to remove bloodstains and whiten bones. The latter needs a higher concentration than the household disinfectant variety though. Oh and you could whiten your hair with it (peroxide blonde anyone?)

>>323190
3% should handle that just fine. Though I reckon if we have any need to whiten bones, we can handle it with bleach. Bloodstains are problematic, but we've already started getting naked as part of our work, so it's not likely to be too huge of an issue. At least, so I'd think.

As a side note, I think you went a teensy bit too far with the head shrinking in this last picture; she looks like an adult. Though I also liked the more stylized look earlier.

Yeah I noticed. I'll try to prevent that from happening in the future.

I don't quiet mind the shifting head sizes. It's very...unique, it makes the girl seem to warp between adult and child. Very stylized.

Dang. Wish I'd thought of that.

It's like this:
Whenever I'm thinking of her as an adult, I tend to draw her that way. And vice versa. I wish I could say it's an artistic statement, but it's actually just inexperienced artist at work.

It's especially a shame that I didn't think of that since it plays in so well with the other warping of reality that's going on in the quest.

>>323202
What was that? You did it on purpose because that's a useful artistic technique for depicting someone as growing up and trying to deal with the adult emotions of loss and abandonment and childhood wonder? that's what I thought you said.

>>323207
I do believe that's what the Ministry of Truth will say about this later.

>>323208
You mean what the Ministry of Truth already said.

>>323212
I believe that's what the Ministry of Truth has -always- said.

Of course.

Oh yeah, this is my ID back here. Visiting my parents for Easter.
Will be updating again tomorrow.

I just thought of a summary for this quest.

Hug dad, defile grave.

>>323372
But Dad really looks like he needs hugs. I mean he looks one hug away from suicide. If Tiffany doesn't deliver we're going to have to do two resurections.

>>323412
im actualy fearing this. we need to sidetrack the main quest a bit to prevent dad and mom from sinking in depression.

im also quite affraid they may discover us and freak out. that and depression may just give us too many corpses to work with.

Yeah, I am really kinda scared by dad getting so quite.

>>323419
I'm half-expecting it to end with Tiffany dropping the necromancer thing and the family just learning to cope and moving on. Possibly after some sort of epic climax with the reaper again.

since i have a fertile paranoia i keep having the feeling mom and dad will have a very touchy moment with us right before the reaper comes for the whole bloodline. then we become a lich and vow vengeance, kicking everyone's ass just to find beardbeard in the godworld.

or mom and dad off try to kill tiff in a psychotic crisis but we are already dead and so our plot to take over the world begins.

in a good end, so far we can cope with the death of death and begin a reign of teaching necromancy to those that cant learn in order to maintain a semblance of civilization under our new world wide adquired immortality.

and we must remember to make a abomination golem for granpa's body.

"look mom! look dad! i got my brother back!"

>>323442

Devil toad.

Thumbs up so far! Keep up the good work (and regular updates).

Tiffany 2010/04/11(Sun)14:32 No. 13855 ID: ceac17
File 127102157662.png - (163.75KB , 800x800 , bonus round.png )

I'll just leave this here.

Yeah someone already guessed right, it's familiar choosan tiem

Raccoon

classic crown or racoon...

if we can sumon it a racoon would help with furtivity? i suppose a crown could always give a aerial view of the place...

>>323655
The raven of course. Classics never go out of style.

>>323655
Yeah, this is why I suggested Raven, rather than a mammal, even though I know birds are tough to work with on a surgical level.

Ravens are well known for their intelligence, and they are good at tool manipulation. Also, they can fly. Racoons have good little fingers, certainly, but they are inferior in all other aspects. None of the other choices really have anything to recommend them. Although I suppose if we were really doing Taxidermy, the rabbit would be the best choice, since they have such loose skins. Not to worry though, the prettiness of the raven's feathers is probably reason enough to pick it. After all, we are the little girl.

>>323655
I rather want a raccoon. Second choice is Raven I guess. Those fuckers are smart.

So we can get Red, Ruby, a Raccoon or a Raven?

As much as I love teeth, mutations, and tiped over trash cans, I'm gonna say raven too.

I'm torn between raccoon and the bird, but I have a personal vendetta against the furry little burglars. Quoth the raven, "One vote more."

More choosing.
Pick an ability for the familiar:
>Speech
>Sense Spirit
>Sense Death
>Tool Use
>Sex Appeal

Speech.

tool use, ravens and crows are infamous for this skill

>>323702
Tool use! It can be our assistant in rituals.

But what do these abilities really do?

Speech would be pretty useful in general, but I think Sense Spirit is the most unusual ability. It's something Tiffany can't do. So, it would be more useful if it ever got used.

>>323702
Sense spirit sounds like it could be useful. Of course a familiar should be able to speak as well.

Hmmm, sticking with sense spirits.

>>323702
>Speech
Always useful
>Sense Spirit
What does this mean? Regardless, it seems like something that would require speech to be useful.
>Sense Death
We can do that ourselves. Anything which lacks a pulse is dead, anything that has one is alive.
>Tool Use
Is this the tool use for which Ravens are known, or in addition to that?
>Sex Appeal
Sexy Birdy~

I reckon that from a narrativistic point of view, speech is the most interesting, so I vote for that. But I certainly wouldn't mind some elaboration on the other abilities. Perhaps we may acquire them later.

what if it senses DEATH the guy not death as in a thing is dead?

It would help if we asked Grandpa what they abilities did before picking one.

I think Sense Death and Sense Spirit are kindof... moderate-range area abilities. You can sense dead things before you smell/see them, and ghosts when you can't see them normally.

for trollan, I would say sex appeal, because crowmanticar was great, but since I'm the only one to say that one so far, then I'd go with the majority with speech

Let's hope it doesn't turn out like Zoltan from the first Dark Tower book.

Sorry for the delayed explanations of the abilities.

If anyone wants to take a swing at me for it, paddles are available at the counter.

Tool and Sex appeal.

In light of the Telepathy thing, Spirit Sense may be more interesting.

Definitely Spirit Sense.

>>323739

zoltan was a badass and you know it

>>323733 here, changing my vote to tool use

>>165662
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTbJCEBE6Ak

>>323997
was it >>/quest/165662 ?

Some clarification is in order I guess.

dead language, noun:
a language that has gone extinct, in other words a language with no native speakers.

No 'language of the dead' or anything of the sort has been mentioned.

Also, don't know if this was made clear or not, the skull belongs to Tiffany's grandfather on her mother's side.

Does anything else need clarification?
Also any feedback is always welcome.

>>324029
so dad does not know of it, but mom does? thats... weird. even more secrets to keep secret from. we should ask about possible necromancers next.

also, this means gramps does not speak the language and thus cannot teach us its meaning?

as far as i know each line was something like "10/f/here LF good times, used to beatings, will travel"

>>324030
and what dead language are you talking about? the magic chants are just mumbo jumbo that have no meaning other then being magic.

>>324031
im pretty sure there is some sort of meaning or logic behind it since gramps claimed to have made spells on his own.

>>324032
in that case it would mostly be directions. like 'spirit, flow though these runes and enter this waiting vessel' but in bizarre magic language.

Agh, no native speakers != no speakers.
For example, latin is a dead language, yet there are people who can speak latin.

so... the only way to make a language non dead is with time travel...

ugh. Sorry I misused the term 'extinct language'.

What I meant to imply was that individual components in the spell use incantations in the native language of whoever designed that part. The ones used so far happen to be languages that no-one uses as their native language. Thus they are dead languages. Grampa does happen to speak those, but his native language is English, so it doesn't count towards making those languages not dead.

To make a language not dead, one would have to raise a generation to speak that language as their native language. Not impossible, only impractical.

I hope this clarifies what I meant.

>>324090
well, we are gonna learn a dead language and raise a generation, but we are all out of ancient corpses.

>>324074
Actually, if you founded a new society, and always used the dead language in it, and spoke it at home so that kids learned it as their first language, then in a single generation the language would be revived.

So yeah. As you can see, the art style in this quest is all over the place. I'd like some feedback on what you think is most appropriate. Reference examples or update numbers.

>>324180
Actually I'm totally digging the art shift between normal life and necromantic shenanigans. The real life line art could stand to be a little bit neater and consistent, but with when you choose to use shading color and paint brushed styles I have no complaint.

I think the amateur aspect of the artwork suits a child protagonist. I think you should keep art shifting, to suit the different moods and enviorments. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtShift
And I think you should use some refrence for drawing Tiffany and her father together, to help with porportions.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u15/Father_and_daughter_2.jpg

Will be updating today from roughly 16:00 GMT onward until I can no longer grip the stylus.

That is, six hours from now there will be UPDATES.

Sorry guys, this demo session is taking forEVER. I'll post something when I get home.

Ok finally. Incoming.

I'll let the voting run for an hour and a half, then resume updating. Should've put the vote up yesterday. Sorry.

Tiffany 2010/04/21(Wed)17:15 No. 14515 ID: ceac17
File 127189531527.png - (127.81KB , 800x800 , skulltemplate.png )

Draw a hat for Grampa.

Tiffany 2010/04/21(Wed)17:20 No. 14516 ID: ceac17
File 127189565794.png - (133.58KB , 800x800 , thefuckisthisshit.png )

and a t-shirt for dad

Anonymous 2010/04/21(Wed)19:41 No. 14520 ID: 1963d1
File 127190408827.png - (137.63KB , 800x800 , 127189565794.png )

We should have all seen this one coming.

>>324315
I can't. You already did the best: >>323092

All others are lies.

Anonymous 2010/04/21(Wed)19:49 No. 14522 ID: bbdfae
File 127190456014.png - (181.38KB , 800x800 , dadshirt.png )

My humble suggestion.

Anonymous 2010/04/21(Wed)20:41 No. 14526 ID: b4cf40
File 127190767316.png - (123.34KB , 800x800 , 127189565794.png )

Just getting this out of the way...

Seriously, if tgchan had a store, we'd need to carry these.

>>324321
Yeah, I gotta agree.

And >>324326 , I was literally a moment away from posting that when I refreshed.

>>324326
>Seriously, if tgchan had a store, we'd need to carry these.
I would buy one.

>>324328
it would be an excellent way of identifying fellow TGchan people on the streets as they would be the only ones to recognize it.

What else would the tgchan store sell? Gimp suits?

>>324328
I might as well.

>>324331
Nothing much, really. Orbs of Infinite Psyche, perhaps. Which I guess is part of why we don't have a store.

shirts with Vresch's face on them?

Anonymous 2010/04/21(Wed)22:37 No. 14542 ID: bbdfae
File 127191463657.png - (127.59KB , 800x800 , dadshirt2.png )

I spent way too much time on this.

>>324342

That's all right, because it is amazing. Pimpskull is the second shirt in the TGChan store.

>>/meep/3902

i think this is how i crosspost.

anyhow what about a black shirt with this momdad on it?

Anonymous 2010/04/21(Wed)23:53 No. 14545 ID: 3441fa
File 127191918836.png - (39.45KB , 232x258 , Dracula enjoys this.png )

To prevent further derailment, take all tgchan shop discussion here: >>/meep/3931

Ñ 2010/04/22(Thu)04:31 No. 14548 ID: 288dda
File 127193586448.png - (202.14KB , 800x800 , dadsawfulshirt.png )

Tiffany what were you thinking you are the worst only surviving child ever

>>324348
this is terrible. you should feel terrible.

>>324315
I'm thinking a backwards baseball cap or a beanie. With a propeller on top.

>>324383
While I don't disagree, I was amused.

Ñ 2010/04/23(Fri)06:18 No. 14620 ID: 288dda
File 127202871324.jpg - (53.56KB , 600x600 , grampyskullthatisnotwherethatgoes.jpg )

Sorry, Grandpa. It's not really a hat - but it did come free with the mask...

Tiffany 2010/04/23(Fri)14:10 No. 14647 ID: 3e2769
File 127205704810.png - (7.02KB , 800x200 , dot dot dot.png )

That aside, since I'm stranded away from my tablet and can't update, how about we have a nice talk, maybe do a little Q&A...
Also, I'd like to ask you your opinion of this quest. What you like, what you don't like, what you want more of or less of, that sorta thing. In return I'll post naked pictures of all the characters provide forward intel on enemy positions, that is answer questions.

Who is Grandma, how is Gramps and his daughter's relationship?

I like Gramps. I like that creepy taxidermist trooper. I don't like Death. I want more ball kicking of Death. I want less... duuuurrrrrrp

>>324447
are there karmical consequences to necromancy?

does tiff have a school to go yet?

will she always need blood to cast spells?

does mom knows necromancy too?

will our pet raven help tiff cheat in tests?

>Who is Grandma?

Tiffany never met her. She died giving birth to mom. Tiffany thinks she was German.

>How is Gramps' and his daughter's relationship?

Tiffany doesn't recall ever seeing Grampa talk to mom.

>Are there karmic consequences to necromancy?

Depends on your definition of karma. Is there a price to be paid? Eventually.

>Does tiff have a school to go yet?

Yes, Tiffany's in a school. She's on personal leave though, and will remain so for at least this week.

>Will she always need blood to cast spells?

It's a useful tool, but not strictly necessary. Most effects could be achieved without.

>Does mom knows necromancy too?

Tiffany doesn't recall it ever being discussed. Most likely not.

>Will our familiar help Tiff cheat in tests?

If Tiffany chooses to do that, yes. This will affect her alignment.

>>324447
I really like the way that Tiffany's normal life has a sketchy, fun art style... and then as she starts acting as a necromancer it slides into vivid colors and bold strokes. It gives a real impression that she's getting into something alien and serious.

Actually, the two-sided nature of Tiffany's personality is something I'd like to see explored more, as is likely your intention. In the future, I'd like to see the shifting art style used as a sort of cue to Tiffany's mental state... letting us know if she's thinking like a hurt child who just needs love or an iron-willed (if youthful) necromancer willing to do anything to accomplish her goals.

I like the way that Grandpa is humorous and helpful but at the same time displaying evidence of the harsh nature and ruthlessness that must have characterized him in life.

Trying to keep Tiffany mentally stable as her normal life splinters in the wake of her brother's death while at the same time advancing her into necromancy will be interesting and I look forward to it. I hope that you're willing to invest the time that doing this compellingly will require, since taking it too fast would hurt the depth.

It would be nice if you were around during predictable times, so that I don't end up leaving the window open and idly refreshing in case you start running things and I miss it.


There are a lot of questions which come to mind, primarily on the history of necromancy in Tiffany's family and the world, but I don't know that I'd actually want to see them answered. Being limited to Tiffany's level of knowledge on the subjects is better than having a wealth of metaknowledge to apply, I think, so if you could keep that in mind when answering questions/filling in some background I would appreciate it.

Just want to point out that this is probably the most quality quest going on right now.

I'm wondering where you got the dead language and the idea for the ritual. It was certainly A+ as creepy shit goes.

>>324455
So if Grandpa never seemed to have a relationship with Tiffany's parents, how did she know him well enough to ask for necromancer training? Did Mom or Dad know what he was? Also, where/how did he learn in the first place?

>>324463
jeebus. she knew he was a necromancer because he is a talking skull.

or maybe she has voices in her head

>>324463
you are forgetting how young tiffany is. mom and grandpa could have had a good relationship but he died before tiff was old enough to remember that.

>>324447
>I'll post naked pictures of all the characters
Well, Grampa is naked all the time anyway. So's the Raven. That really only leaves Tiffany and her Dad. And her Susan and the trooper and Lynn, I guess, but they're not that important, at least so far.

>This will affect her alignment.
Why is there a specified alignment? Is this relating to something that's as-of-yet unrevealed? Will we grow horns or a halo at the different extremes?

>>324456

Thanks for the kind words.
As for update times, if I'm on, I'm usually on from 16 GMT onwards. I'm on a funky time zone. And whenever I'm updating I always announce it on IRC, on both #tgchan and #rubyquest. I'll try to make a point of giving some advance warning on this discussion thread.

And I don't intend to give out any significant spoilers here, just answering questions Tiffany might reasonably know but for some reason I haven't thought to clarify.


>>324462

Again, thanks for the kind words.

Sure you want to know the origin of the dead language? It's a real language, filtered through a language mixer. That way it is unintelligible, but contains structure and has actual words in it, just completely alien. I feel like a pompous ass using spoiler tags. And a traitor for giving away trade secrets.
As for the ritual itself, well... I'm tempted to say 'lol dunno', but I'd have to say it's a combined result of taking an analytic approach to the quest's metaphysics, certain absolute pragmatism, reading too much hellblazer and 'seemed like a good idea at the time.'


>>324463

The relationship between Grampa and Tiff will be elaborated on later in the quest. No spoilers, sorry.
Mom presumably knows of Grampa, given that she has some of his stuff in the attic, including a human finger.
Tiffany doesn't know how Grampa learned his craft.


>>324481

I simply meant it will affect her attitude and disposition to certain things, and her relationship with her dad. Nothing more dramatic than thatCHAOS WOOOOOO!

tiffany is cultist chan at the age of 10

A Constantine fan eh?

Dangerous habits is one of my favorite comic book stories anywhere.

>>324502
Is that how old she is? Ten?

>>324511
it seems she is actualy around OH GOD WHY DID I CONSIDERED USING MENSTRUAL BLOOD TO CAST SPELLS

Since it's such a big deal apparently, I'll canonize Tiffany's age to eleven.
Hope you're happy.

>>324515
So the menstruation thing may be possible, if she's an early bloomer. Though being roughly monthly at best, it's still not that much of an advantage.

>>324512
>>324529
Whatever happened to "use a knife and prick your hand"? That always works for blood mages and necromancers.

>>324535
Menstrual blood is associated with fertility, and the moon, and thus can be more powerful depending on the setting. Also, acquiring it does not leave a mark, which can be hugely advantageous if we don't want Daddy to think we've taken up cutting ourself.

menstrual blood is also indicative of goddamit it was a joke and the we have to consider her classmates, her own reaction and that it could lead to i got trolled, didnt i? and also dad will freak out anyway.

also boyfriends.

>>324543
There's a lot of ifs there. Tiffany might not be that developed, it might not work like that in this setting, the presence of tissues in the blood might disrupt its use, Grandpa might never have studied that sort of necromancy since he's male... really, it's not worth considering unless Tiffany actually mentions having a cycle in-thread.

>>324548
I don't think Tiffany is going to have any boyfriends in the foreseeable future. Not only does necromancy demand a lot of time and attention, she'd have to conceal it from him and she has enough emotional problems already without compounding them through preteen romance. Also she's young for that sort of thing.

>>324515
What is Tiffany's birthday?

>>324543
this reminds me, does our pet familiar bleeds?

im taking we may get a syringe later on and "hunt" for blood.

well, another thing that may help is the fact that since tiffany is young she is her own font for virgin's blood which is another on of those bizarre alchemical ingredient.

>>324548
>and also dad will freak out anyway.
If he finds out, but since it leaves no mark, he's less likely to do so.

>also boyfriends.
Don't really seem like a priority, but even if they were, there's no way a bit of blood collection would interfere there.

>really, it's not worth considering unless Tiffany actually mentions having a cycle in-thread.
Anything's worth considering. But in all honesty, the next time Tiffany (Floating Flutter/6bf0ae, not the character) comes around, there should be a post reading "Goddamnit, no this shit isn't going in my quest".

>>324557
This is actually a decent idea, though I don't reckon we're limited to our own familiar. Really, anything with blood should work.

>>324558
>implying youth automatically signifies virginity
Not really how it works. And the only reason virgin's blood should matter is if we ever end up not being a virgin. Thematically unlikely.

good graceful god, i am not sure if i was trolling or if i am being trolled anymore

Now that that's over with... lessee, what actual questions are there?

>When is Tiffany's birthday?

December 5th. That's 1999 for the record.

Yes it's 2010 in the quest, though it's a fictional 2010. Don't expect references to current real world events, or that the quest's timeline keeps apace with the real one. It's just for my convenience. The quest's history closely mirrors ours though, so any major historical events will have happened, yes.

> blood blood blood

By 'blood's a useful tool' I meant that blood is strongly connected to it's owner, giving you influence over same. Blood as such isn't very helpful, so collecting random blood samples is creepy, but useless. The only blood that's likely to have relevance is Tiffany's, or belonging to the person you're trying to cast spells on. A few possible exceptions there, but hey, I'll give you a heads up if that's the case.

> menstrual blood

Good luck convincing Tiffany to stick a catheter up her vajeener.

>>324574
no, just wring out a pad or something to collect it.

>>324575

Thank you for letting me know the exact depth of depravity my reader base has. I will use this information well.

>>324576
Oh that's not the real depth of depravity. I could come up with some truly fuckall depraved shit.

Anyway, I'm liking the quest alot. Are there any specific reasons people dislike necromancers? Aside from kicking nature in the face and raising corpses.

>>324577

Yes. There are reasons to dislike necromancer beyond them curbstomping all decency.

But they will be elaborated on later in the quest. No spoilies.


(And thanks for liking the quest!)

Oh motherfucker. Tiffany's day of birth is of course December 5th, 1998, not 1999. My bad.

>>324574
Hmm. Most people like to set "modern" quests in the 90's. So if we're in 2010, shouldn't it be basically trivial to recreate Grampa's grimouire using the power of the internet?

>>324574
Hmm. Most people like to set "modern" quests in the 90's. So if we're in 2010, shouldn't it be basically trivial to recreate Grampa's grimouire using the power of the internet?

>>324577
Maybe because they're the sort of folks who might wring out a pad in the course of their work? That sort of thing squicks people out.

Incidentally,
>>324575
a tampon would work better for that. They're just fibers, whereas a pad can include other stuff.

> use intarbutts to solve all problems

Yeah. What did you intend to do? Google 'necromancy'? Ask /b/? Even if you assumed the genuine stuff was out there, how do you propose to weed out the new age 'mystical' crap the internet is full of?

You'd need some seriously good leads before that becomes feasible

> unnecessary mental images of wringing tampons dry

Thanks. I needed those.

>>324604
>What did you intend to do?
If there were actual necromancy on the Real-world internet, I'd show you right now.

But maybe just check /rs/ for some .pdf files. Might swing by the 711, see what's giong down in /necro/. You know they'd have some good stuff, though I suppose it'd be beyond Tiffany's level at this point.

I guess there's some misunderstanding here. Necromancy isn't exactly public knowledge.

It occurs to me that there are severe difficulties in using the net as a source for information for a subject like this. I'd even go so far as to say that a number of strong, specific objections come to mind, but I feel arguing this further would be pointless and counter-productive. I will consider using the internet in some fashion, but until further notice I will consider the subject closed.

>>324644
you could end up with the anarchist cookbook equivalent.

even if you follow it right, you will end up burned.

Anyways, Tiffany will return tomorrow around this time. See you then.

And we're live.

We went to see -that- movie? Why not that bunny movie, it seemed nice, or that one with the screechy voiced bird-thing? Heck, I heard great reviews about that Golem movie.

[/meta]

Anyway, awesome to see you back. Did we get Grampy Bones the pimphat you already drew?

I'll reveal the hat at a later time :P

>>324700
None of those are very kid-friendly. Well, Woodtown just has the messy opening, but is completely kid-friendly. Its even based on a kid's book! (and yes, it starts exactly like that)

Tiffany the Necromancer Quest: On hold pending subplot resolution.

Daughter's First Period Quest: All systems green, full speed ahead.

Player Status: Amused.

Oh, come on, the one with the rabbit looks utter adorable! How could that possibly go wrong?

Meh, since people seem all 'I AM CONFUS' when it comes to characters and their names, I'll list them here:

Tiffany - The Protagonist

Dad AKA Gregory Blake

Mom AKA Julie Blake nee Kinsley

Grampa AKA Alexander Kinsley AKA THE HERETIC AKA THE DEFILER

Girl In Gothic Store AKA Lynn AKA Hot For Pops

Billy AKA Boy with BB-gun

Joel AKA Little Boy Outside School

The Reaper Man AKA Death AKA Guardian of the Underworld AKA Watcher from the Abyss

Any other names? Dunno.

>>324711
The Reaper Man AKA Death AKA Guardian of the Underworld AKA Watcher from the Abyss
AKA A Jerk AKA Meanie AKA Guy we kicked in the nads.

>>324711
Her little girl friend with the christian parents.

>>324713
Oh yeah, Susan is the friend we met, Jacqueline is the friend who's moved away.

SirTen!!H3AwAzMwMw 2010/04/27(Tue)23:07 No. 14942 ID: a7a85a
File 127243486778.png - (330.30KB , 563x736 , tiffngramps1a.png )

My vote for Gramps' hat. Also fan art.

dear sirten,
why are you so good at making the girls of quest so pretty?

Woooo! Fanart! Good fanart!

Thanks for making my day, SirTen.

>>324751
>Woooo! Fanart! Good fanart!

You... you didn't like Gimpy Skull? ;_;

>>324752
that didn't count as fanart because gimp-suit on a character is standard.

>>324742
He's only a skull, yet that hat actually makes him look like an old man. Neat.

>>324752
Oh I liked it all right. I just didn't think of it as fanart like 1ac39d said.

>>324754
More like Jamie Hyneman, really.

>>324743
Thanks! I try. :3

>>324751
I'm very happy you liked it! It's been such a good quest. I'll color it sooner or later.

>>324754
A grampa cap for Grampa. It's super-effective? :3

What is your opinion of the current rate of text/update? Too much wall-of-text?

>>324827
it's fine. we need info dumps for now.

Well you have your info dumps. I hope you're happy.

Goddamn it takes forever to write those.

Oh no, I just know somebody's gonna die. It was too easy. TOO EASY! Something has to fuck up... something always has to.

Guys, we have to come up with a way to get Tiff to do a minor fuck-up that won't lead to something as horrible as this fuck-up is going to lead to. It's the only option. Something must fuck up.

>>325400
It looks like everyone fucked up. I hope you're happy.

>>325414
Man, I didn't want any fuck-ups. My saying was a genre savvy comprimise since obviously Nahk wasn't gonna stop the idiot ball rolling for some good ol' conflict and reveal or something, so I was saying we'd have to find a way to suit the author's need for the desired conflict to happen with less consequences.

A Genre-Savvy individual must be prepared to fight any laws of the narrative.

>>325415


There was already a minor fuck-up back with erasing the wrong hook. Plus Tiffany is both a kid and apprentice to an art. Fucking up is double what she does, no matter how much raw talent she has. Not to mention screwing with the dead is an inevitable bite you on the ass vocation.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying there's a hell of a lot to avoid here.

Oh, and you just flat out told the author you're trying to screw with the story. Good luck from here on.

I thought screwing with normal story progression protocol was the point of quests. Quests allow for stretching of belief and influence. Essentially, the goal of questing is not only to have fun but to prevent idiot balls that worsen conflict. Have you ever watched a movie telling someone to "not go in there"? Questing is essentially that, so you can fucking tell that person to not go in there and they'll listen... usually. Tonight wasn't that case but there was an essential reveal involved.

We solve conflict before it is made. We compromise for the effect of control. The author is the antagonist and we the protagonist, and the characters, plot, and setting are the tools, weapons, and traps we use against one another.

We have the choice, we have the power, we are Suggestion.

So yeah, I thought fucking around with the Narrative, tropes, and rule of plot progression was encouraged. We are a goddamn cheat code in game with no boundaries.

so i know why grampa didnt asked us to make him a cool undead body.

he wants a living one. ours or the dude that rescued us.

>>325419

For the record I'm very grateful of the author for being the antagonist. It takes balls to keep a story good with all us idiots in here trying to fuck it up.

>>325419


Huh, I hadn't thought of it that way. More that we were aiming for the overall good end with subtle pushes, laying pieces in a mostly complete puzzle.

But I like your views, and it certainly tracks with a lot of quest outcomes.

>>325419
i read idiot ball as the orb.

it made too much sense for me.

Wow, us telling her to not touch a phone and leave Gramps was a bad idea for once. It's a historical moment in fictionland, land of fiction. If Tiff listened, its a good goddamn chance we could have BADEND without actually knowing this seemingly stupid moment was a major branching path between storylines... if this was that type of game where stuff likes to branch a bit, like The Witcher.

If I may speak a few words, I do have something to say about stories and narrations.

I believe that the best stories flow naturally. A cast of characters are put into a situation, pushed in motion, and the characters themselves will create a story. I don't consider it my job to plan out a story from start to finish. If I wanted to do that I would be a novelist or a cartoonist. No, I believe it is my job to set the stage and allow the characters play out naturally, each according to their own motivations. It's also my job to maintain suspense, to create the (in-verse) drama, to make it interesting. I let you control a character to keep it fresh and surprising, for me. I want to hear your insight into what's going on in Tiffany's head. I want you to occasionally think outside of the box, to explore possible actions that I hadn't though of. I promise you, I don't make any set plans that absolutely MUST be followed. You're free to take your own actions. Of course, for cohesions sake I'll have to weed out actions that are grossly out-of-character for Tiffany, but beyond that the sky's the limit. In fact, I've considered, planned, then thrown out half-a-dozen subplots at this point.
Last night I painted myself into the proverbial corner. I possessed facts that I had no way of telling you, and I had done such a good job making you trust Grampa that you absolutely would not move from his leash. It was either bad end or a bit of railroading. Sorry about that. That's what I'm here for, keeping the ball rolling.

All in all, I feel I've almost finished setting the stage. I hope you choose to stick around to see what goes down.

Love,
-N


PS. Sorry for being so wordy at times. And this unstructured rant probably doesn't help :P

we trusted him enough that we didn't even consider he could be the villain so we didn't look at him too closely.

>>325435
Bad end would have been way better for the story, I think. But then there would be no more Tiffany, so that's not good either.

>>325436
I still suspect he is not as evil as we are being led to believe. I would like to hear his motivations from him. Give him a chance to say something for himself.

>>325437
In principle you're correct, but consider what a major WTF moment it would have been. I don't think anyone would've caught on that they're being fed lies.

It's a thin rope I'm walking here.

>>325435


... I guess I should have read this before making all those arguments in Grampa's favor. =<

>>325436
well we had reasons to suspect. the first was how uncaring he was when showing us the art, the second i belive was about him and the family. we never got them together, if they were in good terms he would have a stool in the living room to the television or something like it. kinda like adams family.

coming to think of it, when he "killed" us the first time, he controlled tiff. werent the runes on her as well?

>>325437
see, the problem is he is like lex luthor. had a superman not appeared, he would have conquered the world and made a will-less utopia. he cares to nothing but himself, as he said.

i was hoping for a exalted style necromancy, where some spells can be used for good, but gramps is just a bit more rotten that the usual. a classic power hungry villain, even.

well i was partially right on the trap. i failed to notice gramps actualy made tiff panick in order to call mom. now im actualy wondering how he got those runes on everyone. including himself.

>>325439
hoping for "the orb" to make the right choice all the time is in the very least a daydream. as a DM i always had the moto of, the game was supposed to be fun, if this means botching some rolls on purpose, so be it.

asides where would we be if there was no drama and intrigue?

>>325435
If he was supposed to be a villain from the beginning you probably shouldn't have made him such a sympathetic character. The intro and that "I'm so proud!" thing were both insights into his personality that should have been untainted by deception, and yet they were FALSE.

>>325457
yeah, unless he knew we were watching he wouldn't act like he was a good guy in private.

>>325462
>>325457
the intro was pretty blunt on him. he was proud of us because we fend off the reaper a second time, plus, as he said, we have more magic that the usual.

maybe he is a magnificent bastard.

So magnificent he could throw off people behind the fourth wall when by knowing when they were watching.

>>325462
Things don't tend to be as clear-cut as "good guy" and "bad guy". We consider him a bad guy because he's deceitful and murderous. That doesn't mean he can't have pride in his granddaughter.

What do you guys think of the latest art style?
Or storytelling style, for that matter.

>>325510
The new art style is not so great, in my opinion. While some of the pictures have been carried off well, sometimes I have to stare at them for a while before figuring out what the hell is being pictured, which is annoying.

Oh well, I'll try to make sure the art gets a little clearer in the future.

I loved the recent twist, and the art style seems a little less defined, but that's all right.

You still get a thumbs up. Keep up the good work.

>>325519
Don't take my criticism as too harsh; some of the images in the new style are excellent. Hopefully I'm linking these correctly:

>>/quest/178421
>>/quest/178603 and >>/quest/178608
>>/quest/178620

>>325522
Didn't take offence, I know some of the later pictures have been a little fuzzy. To the point where I'm the only one who knows what they're supposed to be.

I hope the later ones have been of better quality.


I actually wanted to come and post a link to the wiki page. http://www.tgchan.org/wiki/Tiffany
You may have noticed that some of the puzzles/problems are a bit on the hard side. I'd like to point out that it would be an enormous advantage to you if you kept an up-to-date databank of all the pieces of information that get mentioned in the quest. Collaboration makes problem-solving easier. And more fun.

>>325597
Could we get some better pictures of some of the runes mentioned during the 'trap' circle? The symbols are too small to make out when the lines are that thick!

Specifically, I want to get a better image of the 'power transfer' rune. It just looks like a Soul Pump to me.

Tiffany 2010/05/19(Wed)00:54 No. 15834 ID: 426169
File 127425567077.png - (8.36KB , 100x100 , power transfer.png )

Sure thing. Whenever you need a better picture of a rune that Tiffany has a chance to examine carefully, just ask for it here (with link please). I'll provide.

>>325634
What about the 'touch' rune, here?
>>/questarch/174177

Tiffany 2010/05/19(Wed)01:50 No. 15838 ID: 426169
File 127425901849.png - (2.81KB , 100x100 , touch.png )

>>325637

Taking a break until tomorrow, recharging brain.

I still read the title as "Tiffany the Necromanticar"
does this make me a bad person

>>325649
>"I'll take care of you, daddy."

>>325650
incestual! holding hands, familiy kissing family, not kissing you!

:awesome:

HEY HEY HEY
I FEEL FANTASTIC

Q&A TIME

ASK YOUR QUESTIONS IN RHYME AND YOU GET AN ANSWER

Head full of passion,
what sort of badass does Dad ration?
(What type of badass is Dad? Come on, that can't be a spoiler)
Gramps had his wish,
but what did he miss?
Is he not proud
or is he truly selfish?
(What's with the tears of joy and pride if Gramps pretty much hates us)

>>325634
>>325638
/QUEST/ IS TEACHING OUR CHILDREN HOW TO DO REAL NECROMANCY!

>>325649
I'm not sure if that would be better or less good. It would certainly be weirder.

>>325656
Though I like the story, frequent tragedies make me sad.
Will the story soon be dominated by events less bad?

>>325659
dad will be wanted for murder, mom has access to our bank accounts, we are currently foraged with dad wich means mom can claim dad kidnapped us, tiff has a HERETICAL book that may actualy make the IMPERIUM OF MAN consider sending some INQUISITORS trhu the warp to burn it, we are going to a clan that may or may not wellcome us, then may or may not arrest us for burning the body of what seems to be their strongest mage and lastly, we are not only enemies to a being older that time itself as we have to learn a magic type that not only that being hates, as so does every other type of mage with a common sense. oh and gramps has mom in his old skull, if he didnt destroyed it yet.

yeah, i think we will hit the fan with explosive diarrea, then be forced to clean it with our tongues.

I've started working on a "complete spells" section for the wiki page, to complement the runes section. Noticed a couple things to add to the page...

Could we get a clearer outer circle from Al-Asmari's Atonement?
>>/questarch/165606

Are the three dots and a dash in the lower right of >>/questarch/164819 actually part of the diagram, or was Tiffany just testing her marker or something? They seem much less... mmmm... cohesive than the rest of the runes.

Something else I noticed while looking back at that: Tiffany holds her right hand in the soul anchor as part of the spell to summon the soul eater, but her left hand is the one which has its soul bitten out/hurts after she completes the spell. Is this intentional? My apologies if it was already discussed.

>>325657
That was the weakest rhyme in known history.
Dad's badassitude will thus remain a mystery.

Grampa's pride was entirely true,
but his plans he'll carry through,
and if you expect him to cry
if Tiffany should die
then surely you haven't got a clue.


>>325659
If Tiffany's bane
causes you pain
then in my web you are caught.
But remember this,
I care for the young miss
and your worries are for naught.
I say as the writer
that sun shines all the brighter
in the morning after the rain.

>>325693
Both are intentional. The Soul Eater bit the wrong hand because it never actually bit her real hand.

Those dots? That's part of the required rune combination. See here on the chalkboard:
>>/questarch/163784

Tiffany 2010/05/20(Thu)12:42 No. 15908 ID: 426169
File 127438454254.png - (19.15KB , 200x200 , al-asmari.png )

>>325693

What he said: >>325707

Also, is this any better?

>>325707
>The Soul Eater bit the wrong hand because it never actually bit her real hand.
Even if we're using crazy fantasy logic, that still causes a bit of cognitive dissonance for me. Yes, of course it was biting her soul, not actually her hand; that said, it seems clear that either the soul is shaped like a body or the mind at least perceives it that way, based upon later events in that scene. So either it bit off a specific part of her soul- the hand which wasn't anywhere near it- or Tiffany could have felt the injury as occurring anywhere, and for some reason mapped the sensation to her left hand instead of her right as would seem more reasonable. Both of those interpretations seem to have significant weaknesses to me; I'm looking for a logical framework in which the events as they occurred make sense and don't think I've yet gotten an explanation good enough to account for them.


On a different topic, that chalkboard is actually something really interesting which I hadn't noticed before. Thanks for pointing it out. "Sense spirit leads to arcane eye". Does that imply that the diagram on the lower right there is called "Arcane Eye" in its entirety? Or the combination of the modified spirit pump and other diagram, perhaps? I don't think that the spirit pump would be called "sense spirit", as that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense even if that's what it's normally used for.

Interestingly, the diagram in >>/questarch/164819 contains no direct connection between the "arcane eye" diagram and the spirit pump. Presumably the chants were used to tie them together, in the absence of direct connecting lines? Proximity seems to suffice to relate runes sometimes, but it seems like the sort of thing one wouldn't want to rely on since these diagrams can get rather crowded- a reversal rune or the like applied in the wrong place could completely destroy a spell.

Another point of interest on that diagram is the designs around the corner of the connection between the soul anchor and spirit pump; my guess would be that it was reinforced somehow to support the soul's movement, but that's pure speculation on my part.

>>325712
The diagram in the lower right is apparently the diagram used to give the familiar Sense Spirit. The Pump is apparently modified in a specific manner as well.

>>325708
Yes, that is much clearer. Thank you.

>>325713
Yeah, I caught that. What I'm wondering is how cleanly it can be broken down for rune/spell design purposes. The arcane eye diagram is obviously dominated by a detection rune, and there seems to be a hook on top, but I'm having difficulty discerning the purposes of its other parts.

The notes on the chalkboard imply to me that the "arcane eye" rune set has more generalized applications and was merely chosen by Grandpa as appropriate for the task at hand, namely granting a familiar the Sense Spirit ability. Certainly that seemed to be the case with several of the other relevant components.

If we can figure out what's specific to the familiar spell and what is not, we might be able to hack together a new spell to give Tiffany or even Dad the ability to see magical things. That's why this is important.

You may ask a question, same as last time.
Think this no suggestion, you must ask it in rhyme.
And if it amuses me, I give you my guarantee
that come next session, an answer you will see.

>>325718
Oh and if you're feeling lazy
or just uncommonly hazy
I have a suggestion for you.
Take a stroll in rhymezone
and surely without a moan
a poem you can construe.

>>325666
>what seems to be their strongest mage
How do you figure? I've seen no evidence of this.

>>325745
the HERETIC was rumored to be alive. they send a mage to hunt him, he has a family crest and a spear of magnifcent craft magic and age.

yeah i think he is a bigshot.

>>325769
no, he was just hunting Jakov the shade not alexander.

>>325775
you mean the wraith he wasnt prepared to banish?

>the HERETIC was rumored to be alive
What? Alexander operated in perfect secrecy. How could such a rumor exist?
>they send a mage to hunt him
Cite this?

>he has a family crest and a spear of magnifcent craft magic and age.
flashy gear is not necessarily indicative of skill or power.
Also, we don't really know what the baseline for flashiness is.

>>325776
He was more than prepared to banish it. He dispersed it in a single blow, in fact. Apparently that wouldn't be enough to finish the wraith for good, but one can presume that if he didn't have to worry about Tiffany he'd have taken his time with more permanently effective measures.

Tiffany 2010/05/23(Sun)17:01 No. 16122 ID: 426169
File 127465925968.png - (14.43KB , 300x300 , anti-scrying rune.png )

Figured this needed clarifying: the anti-scrying rune that was on the bag does not in fact use a circle as it's base rune: it's an open circle with three lines extending outwards.

Ok, sorry if I confused people.
I meant to imply that we returned to present day in update 335, but I guess I wasn't being clear.
Sorry about that.

Well it looks like the Kinsleys are the 'good' guys. As in, they're very careful about black magic and stuff. The Rothwalds are more... amoral. End justifies the means and all that.

>>326169
so no more loli lich? she is 21 years old?

aw, this means you will have to drawn her a rack

Since this misunderstanding keeps cropping up I figured I'd correct it here; The Kinsleys and the Rothwalds are NOT primarily necromancer families. They are families of powerful magicians, who happen to have some knowledge of necromancy. In the case of both families, necromancy is a side dish, not the main course.


>>326260
Huh? No.
Tiffany was like postcogging like two days, to the point when Martin bought the lollipop he gave her when they first met.


>>326259
That is somewhat accurate. It's a little bit more complicated than that, obviously, but it'll do.

So... is it even possible to side with Death? I mean, he must hate Necromancers. All that soul manipulation, revival, undead, etc. really has to cause a lot of paperwork for him. We can make it our purpose root out all Necromancy and become, like, a Death-Fu Warrior in service to Lord Death.

And then we can onvince him to get Tony back for us.

>>326266


This sounds like a good deal if we can strike it. Having Death itself as a necromancy teacher would be a pretty damned good leg up. And Death could probably use an unrestrained agent in the mortal realm to deal with the necromancers he doesn't want floating around.

I really doubt this is the direction the quest will head in, but I find it appealing as an idea.

>>326277
The problem there is "if we can strike it". The odds of our being able to do so are basically zero, as far as I know. We were... really quite rude on the previous occasions we encountered him. Besides that, he made it exceptionally clear that violating the natural order of things isn't good with him; what is necromancy, but that?

We're better off thinking about the mortal families, and how we can speak to each of them long enough to make a decent guess as to which of them is less likely to screw us. It seems to me at the moment that the Rothwalds are more likely to ruthlessly exploit our abilities, but also more likely to encourage us to develop them as rapidly as possible. The Kinsleys would probably keep us safe, but the way that one normally keeps children safe is by barring them from things- not something that we want. On balance I'd be willing to learn German.

Of course, this is all based on a very small sample size and dubious information. We need to delay as long as possible while we learn more, regardless.

KInsleys may teach us other magic, though. As well, when we meet the shadow hunters, we can see whether they can take us on as apprentice. Better than to be stuck in magician family politics.

(Is the shadow hunters a Garbriel Knight reference or do they exist in real life/mythology?)

>>326284
I didn't mean learning Necromancy from Death. I meant learning how to neutralize the powers of Necromancers, which would also help in the objective of saving Mom. If Gramps can't use his powers, how will he stop us from saving Mom?
Also, if this 'anti-magic' is possible, I don't think Death can do it. If he could, why would he simply let Gramps drag us out of the underworld with that white string? Therefore, if we could, we would be useful to him.
And then he can teach us how to harvest the souls of the dead and dying, and help him with his job.
In exchange for the assistance we give him, he gives us Tony, and we get awesome Anti-Gramps powers.

If there is anti-magic. Not sure there is.

Requesting 'clean' versions of the Blade and Forward runes.

Tiffany 2010/05/31(Mon)13:02 No. 16578 ID: 426169
File 127533617532.png - (11.57KB , 400x400 , blade.png )

Blade

Tiffany 2010/05/31(Mon)13:03 No. 16579 ID: 426169
File 127533618769.png - (11.73KB , 400x400 , forward.png )

Forward

Requesting clean versions of the 'hook' and 'Golden Scale' runes.

Tiffany 2010/05/31(Mon)13:47 No. 16581 ID: 426169
File 127533887559.png - (7.33KB , 400x400 , hook.png )

The hook

Tiffany 2010/05/31(Mon)13:48 No. 16582 ID: 426169
File 12753388855.png - (6.94KB , 400x400 , scale.png )

The scale

Tiffany will resume sometime tomorrow. Maybe around 16 GMT -ish.

>>326284


I agree about the rude part. I still wouldn't mind making the offer. Even learning anti-necromantic spells would be invaluable.


Right now I think Death is the only guy who can bring our friend in the pit down. Thomas was 5 alarm badass and all he could do was trap it. I'm guessing he had connections too, enough that he knew necromancers. If none of them could do it how likely is it that even a new teacher could?

I'm not saying it's not improbable. I said it was improbable before you replied. I'm just saying making nice, apologizing Tiffany's ass off and seeing if a mutually beneficial operation is in Death's interest should not be a closed venue of exploration.

So, the current sequence is teaching us quite a bit about how the Kinsleys would likely go about educating Tiffany, were we to sign ourselves over to them. She'd probably end up thrown into a school, with an apprenticeship a decade or so into her future. Based upon what Gareth seems to know and be able to do, she'd gain a lot of background knowledge about the sorcerous side of the world and become much more capable with at least some magics- Gareth certainly seems to have finesse with his scrying. However, she would likely not learn any heavy magical stuff for quite some time.

Is this a fast enough route to power?

So, we're voting.

Kinsley vs Rothwald.

Discussion is a go (but please put actual votes in the quest thread, easier to tally.)



Also, just saying that any joint custody system would make both sides distrust you, and unlikely to teach you powerful or secret magic.

I still like the Rothwalds, even if I don't trust them. Kinsleys are just the safer option for now, and we really need some safety right now considering who's marauding around out there. Safety and knowledge. We can decide whether to delve into unhindered diabolical experiments Rothwald style once we know something more about the tools we have to use. Having ties to two families is an advantage when you can play both sides, but it's a disadvantage if you try to side with one or the other, so I still think we should pursue friendly relations with the Rothwalds when they aren't pissed off and trying to kill us.

Blah blah blah blah intelligent thinking and planning blah blah blah as long as we get a training montage and a cool master I'm good.

>>326647
I like the Rothwalds as well, but I don't think that maintaining positive ties with them is going to be feasible. Nor will convincing them that we'd like to be friends; Martin was fairly explicit that with his "Zis ist ze last time will depart as Freunde." There's a lot of hatred between the two of them, both sides us will expect us to back our declared play.

Our best bet for power and safety at this point, I think, is to completely write off the Rothwalds and throw ourselves completely into the whole Kinsley thing. Until they show evidence of being untrustworthy or start actively blocking our ability to gain more magic, they're our side now.

>>326650
So what's good end? We defeat Grandpa? We revive Tony? We destroy Death for the 3rd time since Creation? We restore peace to the magical community?

Which of the above are we focusing on the most now? I personally would like to see the last one- peace between the two factions.

That, dear suggesters, is up to you.

I haven't set my mind on any particular end. All those you mentioned are viable.

>We destroy Death for the 3rd time since Creation and become the new Death
fix'd

And getting some amount of peace between the factions is likely to be extremely helpful in accomplishing all other goals.

The Concealment rune lacks an image on the wiki. Could we get an image now?

Analysis of Alexander's trap Cruxador 2010/06/03(Thu)17:43 No. 16867 ID: f95872
File 127561221164.png - (525.55KB , 800x533 , possession.png )

The base is a circle.

The hook on the left covertly lures someone into the trap. Grampa said it lured an enemy, but in practice it seemed indiscriminate, and it lacks an accompanying "Enemy" rune, so it is likely he used that word merely in keeping with his facade. Were we to be more discriminate, we could likely bind the hook and enemy runes together in a blade.

The circle to the upper right is the location in which Gramps was stored. It serves to allow a mage control over the whole shebang. It could be omitted if the purpose were merely to cause harm to or neutralize the target. In this case, the victim would likely eventually die.<br>
Concealment conceals this from the target; it would not be a good trap if it could be seen.

The central circle on the line is a reference point. It appears to refer to the victim, but this is not entirely certain.

The right side contains the Mad Eye of Hakuman. It determines the place from where the enemy is least likely to defend. We know very little about this compound rune, and thus should not mess with it. It is connected to the reference point with "touch".

Above the reverence point is an enemy rune, which likely identifies our victim. It is connected to Power Transference, which is in turn connected to the Mad Eye of Hakuman.

Below the reference point is the Golden Scale, which redirects power into the barrier and back at the enemy.

Cruxador 2010/06/03(Thu)18:41 No. 16874 ID: f95872
File 127561568276.png - (320.94KB , 1440x700 , kill_with_own_soul.png )

>>326667
To me, this suggests a couple possibilities. If we can learn how to prepare a spell ahead of time, and cast it later, as we saw Martin do, we can use this to kill people in a very unpleasant manner.

As-is, we could leave traps around that would kill our enemies.

The former strikes me as unsafe - we don't really know for sure how the target is designated - and the latter strikes me as irresponsible. Nevertheless, food for thought.

Cruxador 2010/06/03(Thu)18:48 No. 16875 ID: f95872
File 127561612768.png - (155.38KB , 569x476 , kill_with_own_soul2.png )

>>326674
Actually, the former should likely look like this.

>>326674
I don't think that the hook rune can be used inside a blade that way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that every time we've seen it so far it's been placed outside of all diagrams, presumably carrying the metaphysical meaning that it should ensnare things from outside the spell. I'd want to be very sure of ourselves before disrupting that pattern.

>>326676
It's a rune, it can go wherever you put it. The only uncertainty is what would happen, which, IIRC, is determined by how your haftsusha interprets the runes.

>>326679
Obviously you can draw whatever you want. But the haftsusha probably wouldn't understand what is meant; as Grandpa explained it in >>/questarch/177211, basically all this magic stuff is based upon hundreds of years of experimentation into what the haftsusha tend to understand correctly. Which is why you don't fuck with established magical principles and make it guess.

>>326683
But our haftsusha clearly understands the hook. It's merely a matter of context. And the Blade is a very context-oriented rune; things go within it and are combined. Our Haftsusha will understand this.

...although come to think of it, it might not gut the idea of what it's actually supposed to be doing. Perhaps this failsafe is more danger than it's worth. If we need a trap, we might be well off using just the hook instead of the blade with hook and foe. No point getting risky with something this dangerous.

>>326685
Hopefully we'll soon get access to some sort of crash course in runic interactions with the Kinsleys, and get a better handle on what we can and can't twist runes into doing thereby.

>>326686
It's likely you will, slightly depending on what you do and what sorta teachings you ask for.


But... Feedback tiem now.
How is the quest?
Art ok?
Too cryptic? Too easy?
Too confusing? Too obvious?
Too dark?

Reading some of the archived threads for NecroTiffany, I think a faster pace may be more engaging. In the beginning, the story started out fun due to the mystery, and the slice-of-life antics were well placed. During the turning point, everything is fast paced enough to feel rushed, chased by an over-whelming evil. However, I feel a little bogged down the last few days in Kingsley vs Rothwald discussion and not enough... awesome happening until the spear came to life. Perhaps the magic info can be dumped onto wiki for those who are interested and the quest can either go on to Harry Potter Tiffany, which will be fun, or skip the training all together to get to the meat of the story.

However, I am sure you will come up with something that will surprise us all.

>How is the quest?
I still like it, although I have a fair bit of nostalgia for the days when we were just a budding necromancer secretly delving into the arcane under the noses of everyone she knows, rather than being chased by two hostile magical groups and being forced to run into the arms of a third. Magic has become much less dark and forbidden with the introduction of the Kinsleys and Rothwalds, and the sense that we might get ourselves killed has given way to the sense that others might actively kill us, which is much more commonplace and less fun. I also miss worrying about Tiffany's happiness and mental health- in the first thread, it felt like we were encouraging/guiding a child, and these days it's more like playing an adventure or puzzle game. We can't really spend a lot of time on introspection with people running around trying to kill us, I know, but the sort of emotions expressed in >>/questarch/153196 were what made me initially decide that this quest was something good.

>Art ok?
Excellent as ever. It's more reliably clear than previously, which is good. Occasionally it's so dark as to be frustrating, but the characters are not running around in a brightly-lit world.

>Too cryptic? Too easy?
>Too confusing? Too obvious?
There's still a real sense of danger at times- the scene with the immortal in the well was done quite effectively in terms of mood, although I didn't think that it was used as effectively as it could have been to develop Tiffany, Dad, and their relationship. The last question, where Dad cut things off, was a golden opportunity that I thought was wasted- not because he stopped Tiffany from answering, but because we didn't see the thoughts of either side of the issue and in spite of several responses which attempted to address the strong emotions that such a question would undoubtedly bring up, with the next post it was all back-and-forth business dialogue and practical lines of thought.

I don't find the puzzle aspects of the quest nearly as interesting as Tiffany as a character, for all that I've been poking at the rune system. Working from fragmentary information is usually fairly interesting, although after a certain point it gets frustrating. Anyway, the difficulty level for that sort of thing is fine. It keeps us constantly seeking new sources of information.

>Too dark?
In story and mood, you mean? No, not at all. I don't think there's anywhere that you could take this story that I would consider too dark, so long as it was done carefully and shown every step of the way.

>>326704
>How is the quest?
Exemplary.
>Art ok?
It's varied to the extent that there will always be some flaws, but overall it's very good.
>Too cryptic? Too easy?
It seems fine to me.
>Too confusing? Too obvious?
Again, seems good.
>Too dark?
Your quest makes me sad ;_;
But less so now than when we were betrayed and everyone died.

>>326705
>no in-quest infodumps
I do not concur. I like how it's been working. It conveys a feel that we, as a character, are ever seeking for knowledge. And we'd want those infodumps anyways, so it's no relative skin off anybody's nose, really.

>>326706
>I don't find the puzzle aspects of the quest nearly as interesting as Tiffany as a character, for all that I've been poking at the rune system.
I'm loving it. It's like engineering or programming, but more powerful and we skip the steps where nothing works and nobody knows why.

>[we have lost] the sense that we might get ourselves killed
Bullshit. Did you see those runes I posted? There's lots of ways that we could get ourselves killed if we fuck up. Because I'm sure we'll have call to use stuff like that.

>Art ok?
>Occasionally it's so dark as to be frustrating
Your gamma settings or monitor may be at fault here. Especially if you're using a TV as a monitor.

>>326705
disagree about pacing. if anything, I thought we should have had a little more time to agonize over the recent decision, but since we have opposite opinions, that probably means the pacing was about right.

>>326706
I agree with this post, and will discuss further.

I feel like the feeling has changed slowly, but dramatically, over the last couple threads, into something which is undoubtedly easier to write for, but ultimately less satisfying to read. Tiffany's emotions felt like a delicate tightrope in the first couple threads, and there was a real sense that we were helping her life not fall apart completely despite all the dramatic goings-on. We were even given progress updates on her moods as a result of subtle events, as though they were as important to the story as her skill at rituals and dead languages. It was fun walking the razor edge of keeping those things in balance, and I think the biggest blow with Grandpa's betrayal was that it meant her life went completely to shit anyway, and lately the emotional component feels like is has dropped out entirely.

A quest about the magical adventures of Tiffany Potter I don't care to read. A quest about a sad but determined little girl with real emotions will keep my interest.

And I certainly don't want to pick the story up again after we know a bunch about magic. Having to cobble it together from scraps is much more satisfying. And probably less work for you.

Thanks for the feedback guys, it's invaluable to me. This by no means that you should stop giving me feedback now, keep it coming if you have stuff to say.

Some specific points:

It seems that the consensus is that the slice-of-life moments of the first couple of threads were a hit. I'll do my best not to lose that part of the story.
Same goes with Tiffany's emotions. I sort of weaned off explicitly stating their emotions, instead opting to try and show them through their actions and words, but if you guys liked having them visible, I'll of course bring it back. In any case, I will strive to bring them out through either implicit or explicit means.

As for infodumps, I'm dead set against just dumping them in the wiki. It's a wiki for a reason. It's a tool for you to keep information organized. Use it. Use the discussion page, collaborate. I will try to weave the relevant information into the story and avoid obvious infodumps, but you still need a few more I expect.
However, I know some readers don't care about the practicality of magic, so just having a general idea of what Tiffany can and can't do will suffice. As her skill increases, she can do more stuff on her own. Of course, if you provide me with the proper runes in their proper combinations, the effects will be significantly better.

Pacing is a bit of an issue for me, as I don't like having too much stuff pre-planned to keep things fluid and responsive to suggestions. So it's very challenging to create the right sort of buildup for big scenes, and tends to become a bit haphazard. I'll try to find a good balance between planning and no-planning.

Right. Pre-turnover period. Ah, the sweet innocence of childhood. I had originally planned to keep that going for much longer, possibly even past resurrecting Tony. Consider Dad, just barely in grips with the loss of his son, only to have him turn up at their back door. Or what would've happened at school? Then came the shopping trip. Figured we needed some actual Event in there, to keep things from being boring. At that stage, I was a bit unsure about the characters involved, and wasn't really sure I could just have them chill out and still keep it interesting. All better now. So I came up with the postcog vision. For one, to give her a method for gathering info on her own, and two to suggest the presence of dark forces toying with her life. Then Mneme suggested she try to play it in reverse. So I thought, hmmmmmmmmm yeah ok. Let's do that. And wound up showing Tony's face as he was walking into the water. Afterwards, when Tiffany told Grampa about the symbol, he realized that it was only a matter of time before she made the connection between the runes on his skull and on Tony, and had to speed up his plans. Now consider all the things that had to come together to bring us to this point. I didn't plan it. Not like this anyway.

Timeskip. Now there's an idea I had been playing around with for a while, but I was leaning against it even before you offered confirmation that it's not a good idea. A bit of skipping may be involved to get her a basic knowledge of certain languages, but not beyond that. Dang and I was hoping to speed her puberty up a bit. Well it's in the air. We'll see what happens.

Anyways, I'm really glad you like the story so far. It means a lot to me to create something people enjoy and want to participate in. I'll keep working on it, and try to improve my mad skillz. It's not easy to strike a perfect balance between action, introspection, giving enough info but not too much, serious tones and light tones, planning and preplanning, and still be able to keep things interesting. I can only try my best, let's all hope it's enough! Hopefully we'll all have a blast.

Love,
-N

>How is the quest?
Still my favorite active quest. My first questing love will always be Ruby Quest. :3
>Art ok?
Great!
>Too cryptic? Too easy?
Seems to be a happy medium.
>Too confusing? Too obvious?
I really should make my own actual notebook for the symbols so I can flip through them. But that's more fun and involving in my humble opinion.
Too dark?
Nah. Seems just dark enough.

If I can suggest one thing for your slice-of-life and normal events issue. Mix them heartily, by which I mean make them do normal things, but involve the oddity of their lives. Drinking with Mulder is a fine case in point.

Gareth in a coffee shop getting looks and attracting goth groupies.
Alexander and Jakov watching television in their downtime. (Jeopardy?)
Dad bonding more with Mulder because one day he'd wake up and realize his best buddy is a talking bird.

"Ooooh, we do not lead normal lives..." Kind of things.

The wiki page is a bit of a mess. It's holding up the normal wiki information, and the detailed magical stuff. I'm thinking that this could be solved by splitting the magic section off into its own page. If nobody is against this, I'll do it imminently, but I figured that since it's a page that's under heavy use, I'd ask.

And I'm asking here because I strongly suspect nobody ever checks the talk page.

>>326727
No one ever puts anything on the talk page. If they did, I'd see it; I normally check for edits by monitoring http://tgchan.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges, so I catch pretty much all changes anywhere.

If you want to start using the talk page to discuss wiki issues, we can; I have minor objections to a couple of the assertions and modifications you've made which could probably be brought up. Mostly they fall under misuse of the notes/procedure distinction for spell descriptions; I would place description of the runes involved and speculation on the function of each into the notes section, or possibly add a analysis/design section if we're going to fully break down every single spell. The procedure section was meant to reflect only what we are absolutely certain of- no speculative spell deconstruction there. It's where we put the raw data, what we think that data means.

I'd rather keep the wiki page as it is for now; frankly, no one's put enough time into the people, factions, history, or creatures sections to justify their getting a page. If they start actually getting developed, maybe split it; for now it's fine all in one.

>>326717
>Bullshit. Did you see those runes I posted? There's lots of ways that we could get ourselves killed if we fuck up. Because I'm sure we'll have call to use stuff like that.
I did not mean that I don't think we could still get ourselves killed, but rather that worry over such has faded as other people are actively trying to kill us. Constant urgency and short time constraints move magic from being like high explosives (weigh out just the right amount and check every wire twice) to more like a grenade (pull the pin and throw it, hope it explodes). It simply can't be as concerning as the zombies trying to eat us, so the relative danger is decreased.

>>326721
>It seems that the consensus is that the slice-of-life moments of the first couple of threads were a hit. I'll do my best not to lose that part of the story.
I should clarify on the slice of life bits. I found watching Tiffany and her family's emotional reactions to various events to me more tragic and compelling than any of the betrayal and death that's happened so far- perhaps because it's a topic much less frequently covered in media.

Watching the characters develop is great. Random stuff like Mulder getting drunk or eating cigarettes just makes me want to off Mulder and get a less retarded familiar.

>I sort of weaned off explicitly stating their emotions, instead opting to try and show them through their actions and words, but if you guys liked having them visible, I'll of course bring it back.
I do not feel that you have been as successful transmitting emotion through spoken dialogue and actions as you have been through narration and displaying thoughts. Since the images rarely focus on the main characters being expressive, they don't really help either. The whole "That Makes Me Feel Angry!" bit is to be avoided, of course, but please give us something other than inference to work with- >>/questarch/182454 comes to mind as a prime example of this (again, I know; sorry for pushing the same point twice). It's clear that Tiffany is increasingly being pushed emotionally off balance, but we're not sure of her thought patterns or how exactly she's feeling, which made the whole sequence feel more like a cutscene than something which we were actually participating in.

>Timeskip.
Unless Tiffany is literally put into a situation where she spends months on end doing nothing but memorizing boring information, I'd rather not. It seems likely that there will be opportunity to interact with other characters or otherwise do interesting things during almost any period which might be considered skippable, and since the quest has felt very hectic of late I think we could really use a period of relatively peaceful development.

>>326732
>It simply can't be as concerning as the zombies trying to eat us, so the relative danger is decreased.
I don't know about you, but I thought that Death taking our string was a lot scarier than the zombies.

>Random stuff like Mulder getting drunk or eating cigarettes just makes me want to off Mulder and get a less retarded familiar.
He's new to this whole "existing" thing. He can't be expected to know any better. Also, Mulder contains part of our soul, so anything bad happening would be very much not in our best interests.

>Random stuff like Mulder getting drunk or eating cigarettes just makes me want to off Mulder and get a less retarded familiar.

I enjoyed the humor in both occurrences. I like that the author can juggle severity, action and levity like a pro.

Sorry about the massive walls of text.
tl;dr Tiffany tells Duncan what's happened so far, omitting the book. Duncan gives his thoughts on a few events, offers to answer questions.

>>326989
There is no need to apologize for your massive walls of text. It's important to know exactly what we did and did not say, after all, although I'd hoped to get more of a sense of Duncan's reaction to our story. Perhaps he's just got a good poker face, but I didn't catch much of what he thought of it.

>>326992
>Perhaps he's just got a good poker face
You're kidding, right? Duncan is played by Patrick Stewart with a beard on. Of course he has a good poker face.

No, Kinsley-Rothwald split doesn't have anything to do with the Sunni-Shiia split. Coincidence.

I hope people haven't been put off by the high talk/action ratio recently seen in Tiffany.

I remember people hoping for calmer times for a while, but I constantly fear I'm being too talky.

How does it seem from your end?

it's fine.

You gotta think of it like the story it is. Stories shouldn't be IN YOUR FACE ALL ACTION ALL THE TIME all the time. They needs slower periods either leading up to or following a climax or it'll wear the reader out. WORDSWORDSWORDS appears to be a good way to fulfil this. I think it's fine.

I like the current pace. Not everything can, or should be, nonstop action. We're meeting new people, learning new things, and having chances to make impressions and shape our future path. Nothing wrong with that.

We should develop some sort of magical darkvision, just so that we can see all these ominously shaded faces distinctly. That'd show them.

CRITICISM TIME

Name three things you don't like in this quest. You'll get a cookie. And maybe I'll draw Grampa's new moobs for you.

1: puzzles with few to no clues
2: drawings are still off model sometimes
3: tones and inflection can't go through the net so it is hard to tell if someone is lying.

>>327399
it's good.

>>327493
There's nothing wrong with it. The only think I'd like to see in it that we haven't is Grampa's tits, and I wouldn't have even thought of that if you hadn't just mentioned them.

>>327493
1. Runs during hours when I am often away/asleep
2. So many ominous/mysterious shadows, you're probably running low on black pixels
3. It's not always entirely clear who is speaking when multiple non-Tiffany people are present and all conversing

You've been getting better at keeping us abreast of Tiffany's emotions and thoughts, which I appreciate.

1: The art tends to lose definition, making it difficult to interpret what we're seeing. It's kinda like we're wandering around in a dreamlike haze.

2: Tiffany sometimes has trouble following directions, but there's rarely any feedback as to why. Almost every suggestion pushing for her to take steps to help her mom has been distorted or ignored.
A recent example:
Us: "Hey! A hunter! Go tell her everything you can about what happened to mom so they can save her!"
Tiffany: "Looking for an apprentice?"
Us: (ﾉ ಠ益ಠ)ﾉ ~┻━┻

3: Insufficient puzzles and mechanics. The ritual stuff is plenty of fun, and while I understand that the story right now doesn't lend itself to experimenting that doesn't change the fact that these elements are missed.

>>327539
Yes, (ﾉ ಠ益ಠ)ﾉ ~┻━┻

Going to be away from civilization for a few days, quest on hold until Saturday.

So yeah. The few days became a few weeks apparently.

Does anyone remember this quest? Does anyone care? Do you want me to continue?

>>331406
Keep going. That is all.

>>331406
Yes, continue please!

>>331406
You better believe we remember your quest and want you to continue.

>>331406
I do indeed remember, and find the prospect of continuation most pleasing.

>>331406
I assumed you were on vacation. I would like to see more.

This quest was one I started off reading and being involved in, but once I got behind, it took me forever to catch up.

That being said, I think it's a great quest. I really enjoy a quest that works just as well to read like a story, and Tiffany definitely does that. The writing is good, and the art has greatly improved since the beginning (and since your other quests).

My criticisms would be: Sometimes it is hard to determine who is speaking when there are multiple characters speaking. Why not write the dialogue like regular dialogue?

We don't know enough about magic to really do much with it. That being said, I know some people like lots of mechanics they can fuck around with, but I'm always more interested in the story. I'd hate for the quest to become a meticulous rune-crafting simulator instead of the engaging stuff we have now.

Dad has seemed to 'develop,' but not in a good way. For a quest that has well-written, reasonably realistic characters, he's taken everything that has happened since he learned about magic way, way too well. Dunno. This is minor and doesn't take away from the quest overall. He's not the main character, so dealing with this would probably be a huge distraction more than anything else, it just seems like he went from developed to flat. He just kinda follows Tiffany or whoever around and doesn't really contribute much to the narrative anymore.

Those are my criticisms, but this quest is tops for me. No issues with pacing, etc. but I read a large majority after it was written and not while it was ongoing. I actually enjoy the stylized art and especially the frequent animations. Also, the Crowmanticar reference was fantastically awesome of you.

I hadn't really read the discussion thread, so I didn't even know about the hiatus. I have been eagerly waiting for this quest to resume.

>>331434
>We don't know enough about magic to really do much with it.
Sure we do.
http://quest.lv/wiki/Tiffany:_Runes

HEY HEY HEY

DO YOU FEEL FANTASTIC?


Anyways, the quest has been going on for a long time now, and all kinds of weird stuff has happened. I imagine that some people might be confused by some details or events, especially if they didn't happen to take part in various IRC discussions where things were elaborated on. As a result, I'm giving you guys the opportunity to ask questions, even if the information would be meta-knowledge. If the information in question will be elaborated on later I'll refrain from answering now, this is just to help with the occasional 'wtf just happened' -moments. Even if you don't get answered now, it's helpful for me to know what readers are confused about. So please, ask questions.

One love.
-N